muskyswab

etex vs. D2T... the fight continues!

26 posts in this topic

ive been using etex on a few baits i made but i cant stand the long cure time. My friend is buying some devcon 2 ton epoxy to experiment with. Give your opinion! devcon or etex?

Edited by muskyswab

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They are two different animals.

D2T is a glue, so it's hard and inflexible. On wood lures, it can chip and flake off in big sections. On plastic lures, it's great.

Etex is a decoupage epoxy, so it's designed to be flexible to move with the large surfaces it coats. It's also designed to be poured onto a flat surface, where it self levels. That's why it needs to be turned slowly until it sets, usually in 4-6 hours. It's flexibility makes it more forgiving on wood lures, especially when they hit rocks and get dented.

I've tried both, and stopped using D2T except for hardware installation, and for coating the insides of my jointed lures, since it doesn't sag in thin coats, which means I don't have to turn it.

If you can, get Etex with UV inhibitors, so it won't yellow from the sun.

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No big explanation here (Mark is spot on) but Etex gets my vote.

Edited by philB
Addition

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thanx guys one more question on etex. When my etex is done drying, it dulls very easily even after a few days and it feels kinda softish, how can i fix that?

Edited by muskyswab

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Oh swab, what have you gotten yourself into this time. I definitely agree with mark about improper mixing. We have been eyeballing etex when mixing, which is a no-no. I really want to see how this Devcon ends up though. Try coating one of those baits you have sitting in your garage with etex again, but make sure you measure ver carefully.

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One thing I found helpful with two part Top Coats is to bend loop in a piece of SS wire and place it in a drill. At a low speed, I use the drill as an electric mixer for about a minute. If you measure correctly, this should blend your "witches brew" quite evenly.

Let the mixture sit. covered, for 15 minutes, if you're using Etex (Thanks Fat Fingers) and it should apply very nicely. That takes care of the mixing and measuring problems.:twocents:

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Shades of the old TU epoxy wars!

IMO, both produce a good clearcoat. To me, the differences more concern application methods than end performance.

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Shades of the old TU epoxy wars!

IMO, both produce a good clearcoat. To me, the differences more concern application methods than end performance.

Exactly! Different materials, different characteristics. Apples and oranges.

Both have their place in the pantheon of fruits. :lol:

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thanx guys one more question on etex. When my etex is done drying, it dulls very easily even after a few days and it feels kinda softish, how can i fix that?

There have been poduction problems lately with etex concerning your issue.

The same problems occured with numerous customers in Holland.

The coat gets dull, it feels greasy and softy.

The only way to save your package is to mix well and let it set for at least 5 minutes and then start praying.....

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just to make it interesting I was going to mention D/N Clear Coat, Plucid or heaven forbid 'Clear Shellac', but I am biting my tongue, we have been there done that (10 times) :eek:. pete

Edited by hazmail
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Now you guys did not think that I would let this opportunity go by did you?

Devcon is the best and cheapest clearcoat that you can use. It is also tough. One coat and you are done. EVERY cleacoat cracks. If anyone knows of something that doesn't please let me know. But for 9yrs. now I have coated my crankbaits with Devcon. Haven't had one complaint yet.

Skeeter

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How about this to set a truce to the Epoxy Wars...

"The lures I built are so good, it never outlast any epoxy I used. There is bound to be that one lunker that decide to keep it before the epoxy goes."

hmm, maybe I shouldn't bother and just use lacquer clear from now on. :whistle::whistle::whistle:

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Hey all,

Skeeter, what type of cranks do you make? Because I am thinking that Devcon would be a better alternative than etex for the muskie lures I make, but I am still not sure whether 2 or 3 coats of Etex would be better that 1 coat of devcon. I understand that they both are very different, and it depends upon the application of the lure to decide which would be better. Also, how does Etex stand up to hook rash? I know that Devcon's weakness is hook rash, and since i will most likely fish with every lure I make, I want to make sure that it won't be a huge problem. It seems that Etex may be OK for the lures that we (muskyswab and I) make, although more than 1 coat may be needed. He (muskyswab) recently coated a lure with Etex, but when it "cured" so to speak, it was soft and somewhat pliable. He went on to add another coat, and the end result was amazing! The lure was hard as a rock, and it shined beautifully.He still has a little Etex left and my order of Devcon should be here by the weekend, so the only thing we will have to do is test. Hopefully if his or my dad is feeling up to it and wants to take us muskie fishing on Saturday, we might be able to test our lures and post our findings back up here. Wow that was long, sorry for making you all read that. :teef:

Basschamp

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Skeeter,

What I tried to point out is that there is a fundamental difference between the two types of epoxy.

One is a glue, so it is very hard and strong. It is designed to joint things together or hold them in place without moving.

the other is a decoupage coating, so it is relatively flexible. It is designed to move with the larger wooden surfaces it's used to coat, like bar and table tops.

D2T, and all such glue epoxies that are both clear and waterproof, is great for hard plastic cranks, or even smaller one piece cranks, where it's not subject to joint to joint collisions. It is hard, so if the bait is hard, like a plastic crank, or small enough, like a small wooden crank, the lure won't deform under impact with a rock, generally, and that makes that type of epoxy perfect for those baits.

Etex, and the decoupage epoxies in general, is better for wood baits of size, and jointed baits. It dents instead of chipping if it hits a rock, because it is more flexible by design, and it moves with the inevitable expansion and contraction of the larger wood baits.

I have baits that I've used both on.

They each have their place.

Basschamp167,

For hook rash, just T your trebles, and you will cut it down to zero, no matter which clear finish you use.

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another problem i have been having with etex is fisheyes which suck (especially for sealing a bait before painting. Any tips?

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I wear disposable latex gloves (thank you Pete) to keep finger prints off the lure, and I spray the finished lure with Krylon pastel fixative before I epoxy it. For some reason, the fixative seems to make the epoxy stick better to irregular areas that can cause fisheyes. It's not foolproof, but it's almost completely eliminated fisheyes for me.

If there are any, they're small, and the second coat covers them.

Putting the epoxy on too thin can also lead to fisheyes, because the film is too thin.

Mix it evenly and well, let it sit for a couple of minutes to clear up any unmixed areas and to get rid of the tiny bubbles, and then brush it on evenly, erring on the side of a little too much. Watch it after you've started turning the lure, so see if there are any sags, which you can brush out in the first thirty minutes.

Edited by mark poulson

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I wear disposable latex gloves (thank you Pete) to keep finger prints off the lure, and I spray the finished lure with Krylon pastel fixative before I epoxy it. For some reason, the fixative seems to make the epoxy stick better to irregular areas that can cause fisheyes. It's not foolproof, but it's almost completely eliminated fisheyes for me.

If there are any, they're small, and the second coat covers them.

Putting the epoxy on too thin can also lead to fisheyes, because the film is too thin.

Mix it evenly and well, let it sit for a couple of minutes to clear up any unmixed areas and to get rid of the tiny bubbles, and then brush it on evenly, erring on the side of a little too much. Watch it after you've started turning the lure, so see if there are any sags, which you can brush out in the first thirty minutes.

What is the longest you have let Etex sit, AFTER MIXING before applying it, with good results?

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In cold weather, up to 30 minutes. Then I hit it with a hair dryer to get it spreadable again once it starts to stiffen up. I have about an hour of decent working time, because, I think, the hair dryer speeds up the set of the epoxy, even though the air is cold.

In warmer weather, I usually let it sit for 5 at the max. If I've mixed it really thoroughly, it has air bubbles, and by the time I finish blowing on it, and shifting it in the mixing cup so that the bubbles pop, it's ready.

It has about a 45 minute working time, no problem, where it is still easy to brush on. After that, I can still brush out sags for a while and it will flow out again, but it's harder to apply evenly with a brush. The warmer air temps seem to accelerate the setting time, even without the hair dryer.

I usually mix up enough to do four big baits at the max., about 2.5 or 3 ccs. If I'm doing more, I load those four on the inner part of my wheel, coat them, and let them turn while I'm mixing up another batch. I mix in the same, uncleaned mixing cup, and let it sit while I turnoff the wheel and mount the rest of the lures on the outer part of the wheel. Then I coat the new ones.

I used to do this with Etex. Now I do it with Nu Lustre 55. Works the same.

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I have different uses for epoxies, but I mix them using the same manual technique, which is similar to Husky's motorized method. I mix on an aerosol can bottom with a rounded piece of wire that roughly corresponds to the curve of the mixing surface. Move wire into the epoxy and keep it there while rapidly mising with both back and forth and round and round motions, keeping the wire in contact with can bottom for a squeegee action which will leave no epoxy unmixed; and by keeping the wire immersed in the epoxy, one is not constantly introducing air into the mix which cuts WAY DOWN on the bubbles. The few bubbles you may have are then easily eliminated by exhaling a bit of CO2 on them. With a little practice of this method, you'll completely eliminate incomplete mixes, and be amazed how few bubbles you create while thoroughly mixing any epoxy.

Hey Skeeter! Good to hear from you! You know the reason you don't get any complaints is that they are all SCARED to complain, afraid you'll DEVCON them to some deep offshore boulders!

:lol:

Dean

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The use of Devcon is the sign of a frightened mind.:teef:
Since Wally World pulled the plug on Cheap D2T, Only true loyalists to the product will continue to stick with it. The best Internet price is $13.95 PLUS shipping for 9 oz. HD has a similar product to Etex for $21 for 32 oz. Big plugs suck up a lot of TC, so, again, for many builders D2T has become cost prohibitive.

I found that the use of a "J" hook wire in a drill will help immensely in solving any mixing problems that some experience with Etex.

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I wouldn't know about mixing large amounts of epoxy, but I use a wire for mixing my batches, too.

I only coat 4 baits max. at a time, and then mix another batch. My wheel holds eight baits at two different levels, so I put on the inner set of four, coat them, and then put on four more on the outside, and coat them.

I mix my Etex and Nu Lustre in salsa cups, with a paper clip. I leave the bend in the paper clip, straighten out the middle so it's longer, and use the smaller end for the mixing. Afterward I tap it hard against the side of the cup, and any epoxy on it comes off. Mostly.

I mix, at the most, 6ccs of epoxy, and I mix it by hand for a minute at the most. Then I let it sit for a couple of minutes to let any air bubbles rise, and to let any unmixed epoxy get absorbed and mixed. If I need to, I blow on the epoxy and roll it around in the cup to get most of the bubbles out.

Brushing it onto the bait usually takes care of the rest. In fact, I find that, if I'm not careful, brushing, even with a small,fine artists bristle brush, will make some fine bubbles by itself, and I check the baits after I coat them to be sure those "scum" bubbles are gone. If they remain, I rebrush those areas, making sure they disappear.

I do check on the baits after half an hour on the drying wheel, just to be sure I catch any sags, build-ups, bare spots, or bubbles that might have developed.

One problem I've run into is air bubbles that come out from under the stick-on eyes. I found that they are much more likely if I hit the bait with the hair dryer after it's coated, so I stopped doing that, unless it's really cold and won't brush out right.

Fatfingers, you'll a trouble maker. ;)

Husky, have you tried Minwax Wood Hardener, or the other hardener Snax prefers, for sealing baits?

It's designed to penetrate, and it does, really well.

I do very few wood baits now, since I made the switch to PVC, but I still like pine for big surface gliders, like the Lunker Punker.

You have to let it air dry for at least a day, to be sure all the solvent is gone, and it's best to hit it with a hair dryer after that, to be sure. If there's trapped solvent, it'll bubble out under the heat of the dryer, especially from any end grain. Better to have it bubble before any paint goes on. Once the bubble come out, let it sit another day and check it again with the dryer.

I did a test, and, once I'd sealed a test piece of wood (pine), I let it dry, and then weighed it on my Weight Watchers scale, which measures in grams. Then I soaked it in water overnight, and reweighed it. The weight was exactly the same, to the gram, so I know it didn't absorb enough water to matter, or to ruin a bait in case the top coat failed.

The hardener is readily available at Home Depot, and isn't that expensive. Plus it goes a long way.

I predrill all my hardware and ballast holes, even if I don't wind up using all of them. That way I know the hardener has penetrated everywhere water might get.

I start out soaking the bait pieces for 10 minutes, but I'll soak it longer if I see it's still chasing air out by the bubbles that come out of the end grain. I use a glass pickle bottle to soak them in.

It has ended the dreaded "delamination due to water intrusion" problem for me.

Edited by mark poulson

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Husky, have you tried Minwax Wood Hardener, or the other hardener Snax prefers, for sealing baits?

It's designed to penetrate, and it does, really well.

I do very few wood baits now, since I made the switch to PVC, but I still like pine for big surface gliders, like the Lunker Punker..

I too have been staying away from wood. Most of my baits are cast resin, these days. Arthritis and laziness:) have led me to this path. I'd rather concentrate on making one really good model and pouring facsimiles.

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