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Question on propionate
14 replies to this topic
Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:26 PM
I just mixed up some of the propionate and was wondering if it is supposed to have a hazey look to the liquid. It really dissolved pretty fast but I think I put to many pellets in. It is pretty thick. Does it stay cloudy?
Since I got this thread running, I know some of you saw that Larry Dahlberg episode where he used left over epoxy for spinner blades. Do you think it work work to use the leftovers for a crankbait lip?
Posted 23 May 2009 - 12:32 PM
My prop has a fairly clear bluish tint when dissolved. If yours is as thick as pancake syrup, it's too thick. Dilute it so it is only a bit thicker than water. Second question - I wouldn't use epoxy for anything except a coating or a glue. Lexan is a much better lip material.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 03:32 PM
I'm new to prop and still learning, but here are my experiences so far:
Yes, it does seem a little hazy, but that is looking through 3" of prop. When applied to a lure, it seems very clear to me.
It is very easy to make it too thick. It requires surprisingly little pellets to get the required consistency.
In acetone, it was ready for use in less than 24 hours.
I have a problem obtaining acetone in anything larger than 100ml bottles, so I tried cheap thinners. No good, a week has passed and it still has not dissolved.
Still looking for quality thinners, for the next round of tests.
At the moment, I am using a polythene, tuppaware type container. It seems to work, although the lid has warped some, but it is not disslving and holding the volume without evaporation.
If you stir the container, expect some gas expansion over the next few hours. Lift the lid to relieve the pressure.
I would appreciate some feedback on my comments.
Palmetto, if your instructions, you mentioned 'not reccommended' for thinners. What is the reason for this?
Posted 23 May 2009 - 05:33 PM
Dave, Some say VIRGIN lacquer thinner works OK. I tried "regular LT" and it didn't. Acetone dissolves it in about 24 hrs. 2nd advantage with acetone - it evaporates quickly after you dip the lure, cutting down on the wait time between dips. There may be some more volatile solvents that will do, maybe MEC?, but I tried acetone first and it works well.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 05:36 PM
Ok, that clears it up a little. I think mine is pretty thick, it is noticably goopy. I think I will make a new jar with 1:3 ratio of my prop mix to acetone. Then keep my really thick jar for refilling like the instructions say.
Toluene and all those other chemicals are more toxic then acetone are they not?
Posted 23 May 2009 - 08:04 PM
Bob, it is very difficult to find any virgin in Indonesia.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 08:21 PM
Dave - I use thinner because it is more compatible with my undercoats and can be sprayed over w/b acrylic without lifting it. I had the same problem here, no one has heard of 'Virgin lacquer Thinner' or any other virgins for that matter.
I eventually went to a 'spray paint supplier' and got some (see below), works a treat but not as quick to dissolve prop as acetone (about 3 days) - you will find it costs a bit more than 'normal' buy anywhere thinners and does not have a cocktail of hydrocarbons.
Liquid hydrocarbons 600ml/L Ketone's 400ml/L
Edited by hazmail, 23 May 2009 - 08:23 PM.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 09:10 PM
ok, I tried some propionate. While it was drying it turned an opaque white. I tried clearing it up with a little acetone on a rag, and it worked somewhat. However, the "skin" of propionate tore off and the paint was all gooey under it. I painted it with water based acrylics, which I thought was safe for prop. This is after I had thinned my prop mix with more acetone because it was as thick as elmers glue almost. It is about the consistency of the 2% milk as stated in instructions.
Did I not let it dry long enough? and whats with it turning white?
Edited by atrophius, 23 May 2009 - 09:12 PM.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 11:23 PM
You are fighting a losing battle try to use propinate as a clear coat if you are using water based paints. When i first got the propionate i tried for quite a while trying to get the paint from peeling off from the lure and had no success. But the reason why the propionate is turning white is because i think it is because there is to much hummidity and there is water getting inside of the it. Im not for sure if i am correct on what i just said:lol:. But if you want a clear finish you can just put somesolvent in the bottom of a jar and when you dip your lure just transfer it over to the next jar with the solvent at the bottom of it. Well thats my on the matter..... but really i just like to use propionate for a sealer for the wood because it works really well for that and it doesn't take very long either:yay:
Edited by spoopa, 23 May 2009 - 11:27 PM.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 12:41 AM
I agree w/Spoopa about prop as a topcoat. I know some guys do it but IMO there are more durable, more foolproof topcoats with better clarity. I like prop as an undercoat on balsa and don't care if it clouds as long as it's hard and smooth. Doing 6-8 dips as a topcoat, all the while worrying about cloudiness? Not me. It's not that I'm lazy (tho I am!) I just find that the fewer steps I have to do to make a crankbait, the fewer times I screw it up.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:39 AM
Man, that kind of bums me out. I had thought people use it for topcoats because of its durability. Owell, I guess it is less toxic then the minwax wood hardener stuff. I guess I will try it one more tinme with the solvent thing.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:59 AM
Me too Atrophius. But it is my understanding that a lot of the big name maufacturers use it, so it cannot be that bad. I intend to give it a try anyway.
Post again after your testing and let us know how you got on.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:48 AM
yeah, I am going to try again tonight. I havae a feeling I did not let it sit long enough.I tried buffing it after 15 minutes or so after dipping was done.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 11:39 AM
Ill agree with ya on that one Atrophius, whenever i do anything to the propionate i wait till its hard and there is no soft spots on it. this usually takes about 30 minutes minimum for me. but goodluck with your test tho