anglerinsider Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Man I'm frustrated, and excuse my ignorance with everything as I am a newbie. This is my first mold and my second few hour session trying everything I could think of and have read on this site. The problem is that the mold doesn't pour all the way down into the barb. Sometimes I get a partial rounded barb, sometimes it doesn't even get down to the barb. Once in a great while I get a good one. I'll post a link of the mold at the bottom of this post, the 1/2 oz. seems to pour the best and the 5/16 the worst. I'm using the hooks they suggested with the mold. I get maybe 1 of 8 that pours good for the 5/16 and maybe 1 of 3 for the 1/2. Somewhere in between for 3/8. I'm using a 10 lb. Lee melting pot with setting just low enough to keep it from getting red hot (around 6-7). Lead I got from a friend and it's in 1 lb. bricks. It doesn't appear to be super soft, it does make a bit of a clank when I drop one. So maybe it has some tin mixed in or something, not sure. I've read through a ton of posts and tried the following: - heated mold - heated hooks - heated hooks and mold - slanted the mold every which direction - filled the pot up 2/3+ (this helped some) - etched a couple small scratches from the barbs (nothing too crazy, I figured it was more likely something I was doing wrong and didn't want to do much to the mold) - added some spacers that just created flashing and didn't help - played with higher and lower temperatures - held the mold closer and further from the spout This is the mold (MF model): Barlows Tackle Shop: Browsing Grass Jig Mold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTDuckman Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 A couple of things: 1. That mold is not the easiest mold to get good baits from, I have the smaller size in that jig and it doesn't pour the greatest 2. It likely comes down to lead, the softer the better for that head. Some people heat hooks and if it works for them, all the better. I have found that after you pour 10 or 20 heads, the mold gets so hot that the hooks heat immediately upon placing them, before you even pour the head. There are tricks, but it likely comes down to too hard of lead. Ted pours about any jig head you can think of, he may have a different spin on this. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) anglerinsider First of all I have to give you credit for reading the threads and posts here, you seem to have done your homework. Now for your problem. First of all you mentioned a Lee 10 lb pot. Is that the Lee IV bottom pour? If it isn't and you are using a ladle, then I would personally get away from ladle pouring (Just my opinion). If it is, then I would leave your temp setting on no lower than 7-1/2 on the dial. It sounds exactly like Tim mentioned. Your lead is too hard. Get some soft lead and mix it in, or just pour pure soft lead. I use lead on the harder side but not pure hard lead, and I get excellent pours except on my spinner bait mold I use soft lead. Couple of other things to try. If you have a bottom pour pot, stick the mold sprue opening onto the spout of the pot. This will act as a type of injection system. This does work believe it or not. If that doesn't work, take a business card and tape it onto one half of the inside of the mold. This will give you space between the two halves. What this will do is give you some flash and it should fill the whole cavity. If you are not getting this to fill, then either your lead is too cold, or you are pouring it in too slow, and the lead is not flowing to the bottom of your mold. Another thing make sure you always have a full pot of lead, the Lee IV pot if that's what you have is gravity feed. In another words, the more lead you have in the pot, the faster it will flow. Finally like Tim, I rarely preheat my hooks, once that mold is hot, the hook will get hot once you put it inside the mold. I'm not saying that preheating the hooks doesn't work, because I do, do this sometimes in winter when I'm pouring in my garage. I don't have all the answers, but check all of these options again. I have both of these molds, and they pour fine for me. Remember everything has to be hot, not warm but hot. Good luck and let us know if you solve your problem, and what you did to solve it.........Oh yeah, BTW I think Tim is referring to me. I'm Ted Edited June 10, 2009 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee jigger Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 You might want to try smoking the mold.Its a tip i picked up here. Take a candle or bic lighter and place flame under cavities.Get a good layer of carbon or soot on there. Saved my butt once or twice. Y.J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglerinsider Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 thanks guys, I'm going to pick up some softer lead and give that a go. It is a bottom pour melting pot. I did try holding the mold right up into the spout and it did seem to help but didn't solve the problem. I tried spacers (used some fiber from a weedguard) just to see what it would do and it did fill better but there was a lot of flash. I read the recommendation on filling the pot on another post and that helped more than anything, just for anyone that is having the same problem. I was back to about 1/2 full last night and that probably didn't help anything. I also did smoke the cavity with a candle. A lot of these things helped a little, but I'm still way off from where I'd like to be at around 5 jigs an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am not familiar with the Lee pot you are using as I use an RCBS Pro Melt when I have to hand pour. It has the capability of increasing the lead flow. Does the Lee Pot have this capability. Having tried all the other things mentioned by the other members, you stated that keeping the pot full seemed to help the most. This is because you are putting pressure on the pour nozzle with the weight of the additional lead. If you could increase the actual flow of lead into the mold, you might solve the problem. Not trying to be sarcastic, but 5 jigs an hour would put me to sleep. I would think one every couple of minutes would be an average pace with all things working in your favor. Good luck and let us know the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTDuckman Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Something just occured to me. Like Reeves said, 5 jigs an hour is not many. Are you letting the mold cool back down before you pour another? You definitely want to keep pouring. Lead will set up in a matter of a couple of seconds. Hook placement, pin placement, pouring, demolding and starting over, should last not much more than a minute per jig, if that once you get rolling. If you mess one up, set it aside and keep rolling. The mold will get so hot that if you pour too slow or make any other mistake, a lot of times, the mold being hot will prevent a bad pour. The more you pour at one setting the fewer bad ones you will get, as you will get into a groove and the mold gets hot to the point that the hole cavity will fill even on a cavity that you didn't center up well. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglerinsider Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 ha, you can see why I'm frustrated. 5 good jigs an hour with only 1 in 8 or so good and remelting and all of that garbage... It doesn't really have a way to regulate flow. It has a lever that you lift that pulls a pin from the bottom, so you can regulate it to some degree but I'm pouring as fast as it will pour. One question, the lead should not be red hot should it? I tried everything including turning it all the way up to where it was red hot, but it oxidizes I believe and creates a lot of junk on top when it's that hot. I was trying to leave the heat as high as I could without it glowing orange. 5 jigs an hour would put me to sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfp111354 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hi, the first thing I would suggest is getting some pure lead and trying it. It will make a big difference. I will promise you that. Pick up a few wrap-around decoy weights at your local store and try them. If that works you can invest in a larger quantity of good, soft lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglerinsider Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 The lead I got is from a tackle shop and he pours lead that is a little harder for his jigs I believe. I know he doesn't want it too soft, so this probably is the issue. I have a guy that says he has pure lead from a recycle shop. 110 lb. bricks for free. I'll try that and see what happens. While waiting on that I'll try to scrounge up some softer lead to give it a go. My pot is about 1/2 full with this other lead that may be too hard. Should I add soft lead to this and fill it up or empty it and fill with soft lead? Will I have this same problem with all molds using this lead or is this mold harder to pour than most? The others I'm looking at getting in the near future are: Do-it Molds: Weedless Round Jig Do-it Molds: Weedless Brush Jig but if they all are going to be this much of a pain, I may rethink things. I don't have the time to spend 10 minutes on a single jig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglerinsider Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 decoy weights is exactly what I was thinking... I have a bunch of them that I don't use anymore, I will try that and see how it goes. I doubt I have 10 lbs. to fill the pot, but I'll get what I can. thanks for the help everyone, I'll post results. Hi, the first thing I would suggest is getting some pure lead and trying it. It will make a big difference. I will promise you that. Pick up a few wrap-around decoy weights at your local store and try them. If that works you can invest in a larger quantity of good, soft lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfp111354 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 You can melt it down, and pour it out in thin layers in an old pot. Then maybe you can add in small amounts of it to good lead later. The advice you got about keeping the mold hot is sound too. Sometimes I dip the corner of my mold into molten lead to heat it before I even start using it. I've read that heating lead too hot can harm it, but I always heat mine to the max. The crap that forms on top can be removed with a spoon. I use a wooden handled lead ladle and put the scrap in an ashtray to cool, to be discarded later. Some molds, like your hook barb mold, can be finicky, but I believe the good lead will improve your outcome considerably. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglerinsider Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I picked up some more decoy weights to try, it feels softer so I'm hoping this will do it. The lead I can get from this other guy comes in 110 lb. bricks. He said it is "re-melt (clean lead)". Does that mean anything to you guys or could that also be hard? I'd hate to have 110 lbs. of lead that I can't use in any molds! he also said he had wheel weights, so he considers this more pure it sounds like. I don't think I want the wheel weights from what I've been reading.. he's giving me the going rate on the brick which he thought was $.38/lb. I'm guessing it might be a little higher, not sure the last time he sold. is this a good deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Just to make shore you have fluxed the lead? This should be before you scrape gunk off the top of the lead. There is a good sticky on it if you haven't already seen it. There might be gunk blocking the flow of lead. Fluxing often has made my lead pouring problems nonexistent. But I two, use mostly pure lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/wire-baits/13893-best-lead-melt-flux.html Here it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladebait Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Been working with solder for near forty years and pouring lead into molds for near twenty years. There are only two major reasons for poor pours: Temperature and Lead. With Temperature it is usually because something is not hot enough and with lead it is usually because it is not soft enough. If both of these are out of spec, you will have double the trouble. If you are going to troubleshoot any problem, you need to start with something that you know is good. The first thing I would do is buy or borrow a thermometer that can read at least 800 F. I have seen cases where the incoming voltage to the house may be low or erratic and will affect the pot temperature. My best pours come at about 700 F. Also, do not worry about cleaning the dross (junk at surface) off the surface very often because it acts as a insulator to the Lead below it. The second thing I would do is purchase some lead that you absolutely know is soft and replace it with what you are now using, but do not throw that used lead away. You will want to add it back in small amounts along with the known soft Lead. I have read all of the suggestions intended to help your problem, have used them myself and believe me they are all great. Any variation from the proper temperature and correct Lead softness will cause various problems that can be corrected or helped by these suggestions. But, if you want relatively trouble free pours, do what several before me have stressed: start with soft lead and fill the pot almost to the top. Once you have established a good baseline with soft lead and the right temperature, you can experiment with other types and percentages of lead. Later ---Bladebait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglerinsider Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Thanks everyone for the help. I poured all of that lead into ingots and filled the pot with decoy lead and didn't have any problems at all. I poured about 70 jigs with only 1 that didn't pour all the way. It didn't seem to matter what I did with this lead, slow pour, pot low, etc.. It poured great. Huge difference. Glad I finally asked, saved me a lot of additional frustration! Hopefully this new block I'm getting is soft! Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 You recieved good advise from everyone but Cadman was spot on about the softer lead, you can make a harder alloy that will pour good but you have to experiment. The lead you have is probably very hard, I found that out when I first began pouring my own spinnerbaits and jigs, I used tire weights exclusively and I couldn't get a single good bait and before giving up I bought a 4lb. lead ingot from Cabela's and I haven't had a problem since. I now make my lead a bit harder for jigs by melting a few wheel weights with the soft lead, about a 70/30 mix and this pours good, and harder and I start to have problems, just follow the advise and what you've been doing so far and you'll get good pours eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 anglerinsider, I am glad you got everything working. You received some of the best info from all of the above posts and guys on this forum. As you pour more and more, you will get better at it, and you will find easier methods and quick tips that will save you time. I among others thank you for sharing all your problems, and then replying with a solution. This will help many newbies into learning how to pour. The nicest thing to see is newbies reading posts and threads, and then asking direct questions. Since you have this dilemma behind you now and learned a big learning curve, you will have fewer if any problems on your other molds you want to purchase. You then can experiment with hard and soft lead ratios if you choose. FYI, I have been pouring for about 10 years, and there are days that things just don't go well and pours don't pour well. On those days you have to walk away and wait for tomorrow. I'm sure you will have some questions down the road. All you have to do is ask, and everyone here will help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) Adding to my fellow heavy metal fans good advice I would suggest adding tin in the amounts: 1. To hardened lead like 50-50 or 70-30 soft lead-wheel weight alloy: 2% by weight 2. To soft lead: 4% by weight Tin added to hardened lead improves pourability & the oxidation resistance already afforded by the antimony content of the hard lead. Soft lead IMO requires more tin added for significant oxidation resistance & toughness. Too much tin tho, for example 10% tin added to soft, actually degrades pourability. Edited June 11, 2009 by hawnjigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
