Mart

Priming/Sealing

11 posts in this topic

just a quick question i've just got all my airbrushing stuff before this i've been handpainting but i was just wanting to know if you guys use a paint primer and then shoot colours or if you just put a thin coat of etex/devcon and then shoot onot that?

cheers

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I do both. An undercoat/waterproofer/primer of epoxy or propionate, then a white color basecoat, then colors.

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Yeah, I do about the same. i build up some propionate then shoot some pearl white all over it. Either way, sealing the wood and priming is good.

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Sealer and primer do two different things.

Sealer makes the lure waterproof/water resistant.

Primer makes the paint bond to the lure.

Sanding sealer tries to do both, but, with wood lures, a good seal coat, sanded smooth, and then resealed, followed by a good primer, again sanded smooth if needed, is how I would do it.

The primer coat doesn't have to be thick. Just enough to cover the lure, so there's a good bonding surface for your paint.

In the past, I've made the mistake of over priming, trying to get a completely opaque coat, and the primer has sagged, requiring additional sanding and recoating to get it smooth.

Now I just hit the entire lure once lightly, and let it dry. Then paint.

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What trips me up in these discussions is what guys mean when they use the terms: prime, waterproof, seal, basecoat, etc. They means different things to different guys. To me:

Waterproofing is a coating to armor wood against water infiltration, and implies some durability since it has to withstand fishing abuse while performing its function.

Primer is a coating applied to improve the adhesion of subsequent coatings.

Sealer is a coating that penetrates wood grain and prevent it from rising when hit by water based paints. It's similar to waterproofing but doesn't necessarily imply durability.

Basecoat is a solid color coating (often white paint) applied so that underlying wood grain or paint will not show through later paint layers.

Obviously, some coatings have values in more than one category. E.g., epoxy or propionate waterproofing also acts as a sealant. A white primer improves adhesion while also serving as a color basecoat. I'm not trying to suggest "standards" here, just saying it's confusing to me when someone asks a question about a coating type without stating exactly what they want the coating to do (OK, many times they don't know what they want it to do!) Equally confusing is advice given which refers to waterproofer, primer, sealer, etc. without naming a specific coating/brand or saying what it's function is. It may be crystal clear in your mind - but you can bet a lot of readers will remain confused, or worse, take entirely the wrong meaning.

Edited by BobP

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What trips me up in these discussions is what guys mean when they use the terms: prime, waterproof, seal, basecoat, etc. They means different things to different guys. To me:

Waterproofing is a coating to armor wood against water infiltration, and implies some durability since it has to withstand fishing abuse while performing its function.

Primer is a coating applied to improve the adhesion of subsequent coatings.

Sealer is a coating that penetrates wood grain and prevent it from rising when hit by water based paints. It's similar to waterproofing but doesn't necessarily imply durability.

Basecoat is a solid color coating (often white paint) applied so that underlying wood grain or paint will not show through later paint layers.

Obviously, some coatings have values in more than one category. E.g., epoxy or propionate waterproofing also acts as a sealant. A white primer improves adhesion while also serving as a color basecoat. I'm not trying to suggest "standards" here, just saying it's confusing to me when someone asks a question about a coating type without stating exactly what they want the coating to do (OK, many times they don't know what they want it to do!) Equally confusing is advice given which refers to waterproofer, primer, sealer, etc. without naming a specific coating/brand or saying what it's function is. It may be crystal clear in your mind - but you can bet a lot of readers will remain confused, or worse, take entirely the wrong meaning.

Thats a really good point......I came into this craft with knowledge of using automotive urethanes, and when I read the above terms they seem to mean something different to me then they do to you guys....so it does get a bit confusing.

Take primer for instance.....in the auto world you got etch primers, epoxy primers, 2K primers. They get referred to as primers....primer fillers....primer surfacers and primer sealers, but each do something different......While a "Sealer" is again its own product and there are several of them....My House of Kolor book shows 3 that are labeled sealers and i'm sure each paint mfg has its own type of sealers.....in the auto painting world a sealer isn't always needed....its purpose is to keep something from below the primer from bleeding thru into the paintjob at a later date.....for instance.....covering a dark colored bondo repair on a fender of a light colored car....or there might be multiple colors showing from previous paintjobs.....you'd shoot a primer over the repair followed by the appropriate sanding measures, and then you'd use a sealer just before you apply your first coat of paint....without the appropriate color sealer being applied first it could take way to many coats of a light colored paint to cover the dark area and you run the risk of the repair showing thru the paintjob months later....in fact I think many auto painters concider the sealer coat to BE the first base coat.

When tackle builders talk about sealers, i'm never sure if your talking about something like Thompsons water seal, or clear laquers, or polyurethanes made to seal wood floors to seal raw wood, or are you talking about a primer type of sealer that would be used to cover the factory paintjob on a plastic crankbait before you start a repaint or what exactly....lol. Some of ya'll are painting wood, some are painting plastics, some are painting foam and trimboards and I don't know what all else, and each prep and painting process should be a bit different i'd imagine......but in a forum situation where information gets read here or there, and then re-shared here or there, its easy to give or get incorrect info simply because of terminology differences, or in many cases our geographical locations can be the difference between what one person calls a sealer and someone on the opposite side of the planet calls a sealer.

BobP, I know you said your not suggesting standards, but maybe thats not a bad idea....if its even possible?

Edited by 68KingFisher

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68KF, Well, I suppose we could establish "standards" but nobody would follow them.:lolhuh:TU is a diverse group. That's bad for mutual understanding, but good for getting different points of view. I just think neophytes often get totally confused by the use of different but overlapping coating terms. Some of us not-so-neophytes too!

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neophytes, had to look that one up!

I think your definition of the various coatings with regard to lure building, is very clear and concise. It will be a good reference link to send in reply to future queries on the subject.

Dave

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i'll be spraying barewood mainly, i normally apply a coat of wood varnish so the wood doesn't absorb any water while i balance the lure up, so after that would a thin coat of etex then a spray over with createx white be sufficient before shooting some colours?

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Mart, I can't speak to using varnish before waterproofing. I usually brush on a coat of Devcon 2 Ton epoxy diluted with solvent as a waterproofer/sealer for bare wood. Etex already contains some solvent so I probably wouldn't dilute it further. A light sanding and it's ready for color basecoating. I can't see where varnish would help but I don't know if it hurts.

The simplest, no-frills finish routine I know for wood baits: epoxy waterproofing, lightly sand, white acrylic color basecoat, colors, epoxy topcoat.

One product to buy, no solvent coating incompatibilities to worry about, reliable results. When finish "disasters" are reported on TU, it's usually due to somebody using a "witches' brew" of solvent based coatings. You can't just throw together a bunch of coatings and expect them to work together. Maybe they will but it's a crap shoot. And nothing is more frustrating than seeing your topcoat blister the paint job you just spent an hour airbrushing on the bait. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

Edited by BobP

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Mart, I can't speak to using varnish before waterproofing. I usually brush on a coat of Devcon 2 Ton epoxy diluted with solvent as a waterproofer/sealer for bare wood. Etex already contains some solvent so I probably wouldn't dilute it further. A light sanding and it's ready for color basecoating. I can't see where varnish would help but I don't know if it hurts.

The simplest, no-frills finish routine I know for wood baits: epoxy waterproofing, lightly sand, white acrylic color basecoat, colors, epoxy topcoat.

One product to buy, no solvent coating incompatibilities to worry about, reliable results. When finish "disasters" are reported on TU, it's usually due to somebody using a "witches' brew" of solvent based coatings. You can't just throw together a bunch of coatings and expect them to work together. Maybe they will but it's a crap shoot. And nothing is more frustrating than seeing your topcoat blister the paint job you just spent an hour airbrushing on the bait. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

AND THEY ALL SAID AMEN!

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