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Posted 21 June 2009 - 02:31 PM
I'm ready to order my first airbrush and was wondering out of the following which one is the best.
Master Precision Model G44
Master Performance Model G46
Posted 21 June 2009 - 04:30 PM
I just got mine not to long ago. It was a Master g22 and I really have not had any problems with it. I have been mixing my own paints which is kind of a pain, so I might just break down and buy some createx. A lot of the guys here go with the iwata, and paasche ones from what I have seen. Kingfisher here knows tons about airbrushes.
I tend to lean towards cost effectiveness when starting new things, thats why I when with the master and a cheaper compressor, but you might be different. Just make sure its double action. One thing I have sort of changed my mind on is the top loaded vs. the syphon feed. I think I am going to go for a syphon one because of the adapter you can buy for bottles. It makes the changing of colors easier since you dont have to totally wipe out and rinse a fixed cup on the airbrush.
I am still new to it all, but thought I would give my input. Some one will chime in here with some more info though.
Posted 21 June 2009 - 05:30 PM
I bought the bottle adapters and they didn't work to well. Kind of hit or miss on whether or not the paint would come out.
Posted 21 June 2009 - 07:56 PM
I don't know anything about the Masters brand other then its an Iwata knock off.......On the other hand the Paasche VL series has been the workhorse of the industry for many years...parts are readily available and inexpensive....So if it was me, i'd choose the Paasche long before i'd go with the Masters.
The only drawback to the Paasche VL series is they have a fatter body than most other airbrushes.....thats not an issue if you have large hands, but if you have small hands then you might not like the way it feels in your hand...its kinda like having a big fat cigar or sharpie in your hand....kinda awkward at first....If the fat body isn't your thing, then i'd suggest looking at the Paasche Millennium series....its has the slimmer body that most folks seem to like.....plus it comes in #1,#3,#5 sizes as well.
I highly recommend getting a full set that has all three tip sizes, plus bottles, hose, wrench, etc......Having all three tip sizes is an advantage in the long run.....I use #5 tips to spray primer and clearcoats....most artwork gets done with the #3, and when I need finer details i'll switch to the #1.
I hope this helps.....feel free hollar if I can be of more help.
Posted 21 June 2009 - 09:36 PM
I have a master G series and it works great. I've had no problems shooting water based paint out of it. Just my 2 cents...
Posted 21 June 2009 - 09:51 PM
Ok, I wanted to add that I went and had a look at the Master's airbrushes you asked about and I have these additional comments.
The G44 has a 0.2mm tip.....thats considered a detail brush, and is designed for thin viscosity inks and paints, and I would hesitate to use it with Createx due to added tip clog issues from the smaller tip.
The G46 has a 0.3mm tip, and would work alot better with thicker viscosity paints like Createx.....the 3 interchangable cups is a cool feature, but one that you really won't use much so I sure wouldn't pay extra for it.
Both of the Masters brushes are gravity feed, while the Paasche VL and Millennium series are siphon feed.....So you'll have to decide what style will fit your needs the best....they both have their pro's and con's......Siphon feed requires more air pressure to draw the paint up a tube, while the gravity feed doesn't need much at all since gravity keeps the paint in the bottom of the cup.....but the cup size is small while you can hang a 4oz bottle from a siphon feed....again what fits your needs?..
Gravity feeds tend to clean up a touch quicker, but not alot......You can change colors in simular amounts of time......the biggest problem I have with the gravity feed cups is that the cup is in my line of sight....so I find that have to pitch the cup a bit sideways so I can see past it, and that feels weird...at least to me....so I prefer siphon feeds for most of my work, but both of my detail guns are side feed, so the bowl is not in my view, but I have the same benefits as a gravity feed brush.
Hope this is helping and not confusing you....lol...If ya ask a thousand guys what they recommend your gonna get a thousand different answers....lol....airbrushes are onna those things ya just gotta get your hands on for awhile to decide if ya like it or not.....each one feels, and acts a bit different.....just find what works for you.....hollar if you need more confusion....lol:yay:
Edited by 68KingFisher, 21 June 2009 - 09:55 PM.
Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:05 PM
I agree a lot with 68kf. I had a few gravity feeds and hated them. Some people love them though. The thing I didn't like was if you leaned too far paint spilled out and it just seems you need to me a little more careful handling it, whereas the siphon feed you just screw the bottle on and go. I have 7 Badger model 175 Crescendo's and really like them. I use to have the model 150 which is thinner in body but I really like the larger airbrush. I guess it is just another preference thing. I have real small hands and the size of this airbrush doesn't seem to bother me a bit. The nice thing is you can get a Fine, Medium and Heavy tip and needle with them. I mainly only use the Fine and Heavy. Fine for all my detail work and the Heavy for basecoats and clears.
Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:10 PM
68KF is right about different opinions. I use a gravity feed Iwata HP with a .2mm tip and the smaller cup (1/16th oz?). I sure wouldn't want to paint a motorcycle or a helmet with it, but for crankbaits the tip and cup size seem perfect to me. About half my paint is Createx and I shoot it unthinned at between 15-35 psi, no problems. In fact, Createx seems to contain more flow agents than other brands; almost like it's homoginized. Createx Neon Yellow looks as thick as heavy cream out of the bottle but it shoots through an airbrush like you-know-what through a goose. I often use a .3mm Iwata Revolution for color basecoating. The .2mm HP will get the job done, just not as fast. I don't shoot topcoats, so can't comment re tip size for that.
I haven't used a Chinese airbrush like the Master. Some guys own and praise them. They are certainly bargain priced! But it's also worth knowing that some TUers have reported problems with them. Iwatas are expensive. The parts are expensive. But the quality is superior. The Iwata HP's are hand tuned at the factory for spray pattern. I've used Paasche, Badger and Iwata. Whichever brand you choose, you will generally get what you pay for and nothing more.
68KF is exactly right about using them. It takes some time to "meld" with any particular brush. They're just like any tool.
Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:35 PM
Well I'm certainly glad that I read this as well. I'm thinking about gettin another gun and keeping the Master around for a backup in case something happens, or just using the Master to spray basecoat, that way I always have the same color and mix in the gun. I have a few questions about painting, as I am also just beginning, but I will save that for another thread
If I took all your airbrushes away and only left you with one, what would you choose?
Sorry to hijack this thread, btw, but I had alot of the same questions.
Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:38 PM
I have an Iwata HP-C gravity feed with a .3 tip, which I use for general painting, and a Badger siphon feed with a .5 tip, which I use for base coating a lot of lures at once, since the bottles hold way more paint than the gravity cup, and the .5 tip will shoot molasses (JK).
I wanted a brush with a MAC valve, so I could control the air pressure at the gun, so I bought a Master brush with that feature, and a .3 tip. Mistake. The machining on the MAC valve is so poor that I don't have the fine adjustment that I bought it for.
So, after reading several rave reviews here, I bought an Air Pro 900, with the same MAC valve, and the spare .2 needle and tip.
Night and day difference.
The Air Pro performs just like I want it to, and has become my detail gun.
I put the Master brush back in the box.
The Air Pro is more expensive than the Master, but less than the Iwata. Kind of in the middle.
I am a ham fisted painter, but the Air Pro is easy to use, and I get good results.
I would recommend it for detailing.
Edited by mark poulson, 22 June 2009 - 03:40 PM.
Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:46 PM
Where did you get it from? I did a google search for that Air Pro model and I didn't find it...
Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:03 PM
Seems like I always get asked this.....problem is its a loaded question....you ask which one would I choose, and I have ask back, "choose for what?".....what am I painting?.....cause theres a huge difference is needing a brush to paint murals on the side of Zippo lighters, or paint murals on the side of a motorhome.....you can't choose a single brush that works for both.
Having said that if all I was ever gonna paint was crankbaits, that helps narrow it down a bit....but now budget comes in to play.....whatcha lookin to spend.....are you a lowball kinda spender or is money no object?......See what i'm gettin at?....Too many variables to call any one brush "the" brush i'd pick over all others.....fortunately we live in a world where we don't have to pick....decent airbrushes can be purchased cheap enough that every painter can afford a few different ones.....heck they even make an airbrush now thats considered disposable....once the needle or tip wears out just toss it and buy another.....for $38 each you can hardley go wrong...lol.....crap I just received 2 Iwata tips in the mail today...the bill was $86.98
Just don't expect a $38 airbrush to perform like a $300 airbrush.
Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:38 PM
Wow, well, then let me ask you, which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Since we are on a tackle forum, more specifically a hard bait forum, I will narrow it down to these terms:
1) The airbrush will be used for all aspects of crankbait painting, from the base coat to the fine details
2) It has to be readily available to the general tacklemaking public, No custom made gold gilded automatic adjusting thingamajigger that sprays a perfect sexy shad pattern with the push of a remote control button. (yeah, I know such item don't exist, hehehe)
3) I'm sure we have some doctors and lawyers on here that make tackle, but the general consensus here is we're just good ol' hard workin blue collar guys who do this for the thrill of catchin big ol lunkers on something our own blood, sweat and hands made. Let's keep it somewhere in the neighborhood of $150, plus or minus a few tens.
4) The gun has to be user friendly, and replacement parts readily available.
Hopefully this narrows it down a bit.
BTW, if I seem a little sarcastic, I don't mean to be. Just havin a bit of fun:lol:
Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:18 PM
Given your set of criteria, I'd choose an Iwata HP-B. The "B" indicates the small 1/16 oz gravity feed cup. Although an airbrush with a .3mm tip works faster for color basecoating, the HP-B wins hands down for fine shading and lining. If I can only carry one, that's it. Treat it right, be careful cleaning it, and it will give you great service. For gosh sake, don't damage the paint nozzle 'cause replacement is around $40. Iwatas with the MAC air control valve are handy but JMHO, the feature is pricey. You can get the same pressure control with a cheap in-line valve or a combo valve/pressure dial mounted on your compressor, if it's within hand's reach. BTW, anything with a .2mm tip is for airbrush paint only. Coarse "hobby paint" like Apple Barrel, etc will clog. As far as Iwata models go, you can pick and choose the features you like knowing that all models have high quality. BTW, if I could add one to my pack as a backup, it would be a .3mm Revolution B (cheap at $70). If I were planning to shoot clearcoats through my brush, a Paasche VL or Badger 170 with multiple tips might get the nod as an "all-in-one".
Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:38 PM
Col Sanders pooped out the first egg....all the fried chickens came later.
Personally when it comes to airbrushing....I don't care if you airbrush crankbaits or wall murals....I think you need more then one airbrush.....you need a decent brush with a 3.0mm tip or larger that will be used for larger areas....basecoats....fades....blends, etc.....then I think you need a detail gun....0.2mm or smaller.
If I still have to choose one of those then i'd go with the 0.3mm gun....and with practice you can learn to achieve details close to what a 0.2mm gun would produce.....definately good enough for any crankbait.
As for brands, I'll always recommend staying with the major brands.....Iwata...Paasche....Peak....Badger....Richpen...Thayers and Chandler, to name a few.....each of them will have airbrushes in the price range you mentioned.....use the tip sizes as a guide, and decide which features suit your needs....all are user friendly and parts are readily available.
My personal arsenal consists of several Paasche VL's....I still have and use the first one I ever got back in 1974.....These guys are my workhorses for lots of background stuff, but can be used for finer details since you can switch tip sizes.....They are probably the #1 most suggested airbrush for a newbie.....just make sure to get the VL set....it has all three tip and needle sizes so your good to cover most anything.
Next are my Iwata HP-BCS Eclipse's......I love these brushes, and have used the crap outta them for several years and they just keep working without any hassles.....parts are not to expensive either......In that same catagory i've also got a Thayers and Chandler Omni 4000 thats not a bad brush at all, although it doen't have the same fit and finish as the Eclipse.....both sell for just under $100 and they are hard to beat for a siphon feed brush.
Lastly are my highend detail brushes....Both Iwata's.....my favorite is the HP-SB side bowl brush with a 0.2mm tip.....top quality brush but sells for around $200.....and my ultra detail brush is the CM-SB side bowl Custom Micron.....Lists for something like $575. but actually sells for around $360 or so....although very few crankbait painters would need something that detailed.
I've only used just a small portion of the airbrushes available on the market so i'm no expert on the subject.....I used them for alot of years,only just the models shown above....I hope this helped you narrow it down a little.
Posted 23 June 2009 - 04:55 AM
Iwata HP-B and Eclipse. Make your life easy! Don't squeeze those pennies too hard.
Good luck! Previous commentors (Mr, Kingfisher and BobP) have made my life much easier thru their advice.
Posted 23 June 2009 - 01:17 PM
army doc; Iwata Eclipse gravity feed can do it all! Consider calling Dixie Art or Medea and ask the same question. Somewhere there is spreadsheet on the pro's and con's on the Iwata's.