Fixing bad spots in the final coat
18 replies to this topic
Posted 25 June 2009 - 11:13 PM
Every now and then I will get a lure that comes off the drying rack with a bad spot in the D2T. I wear gloves and a painters mask all through out the start of sealing the lure all the way to final coat. So i still cannot figure out why this is happening. The only thing that I can guess what it can be is that i do not mix the epoxy well enough.
I mix all my epoxy in the bottom of Plaster of Paris cans and i thin the epoxy out with acetone. I think that may be where i am messing up in my process is when i mix the epoxy. The odd ball thing though is that it doesnt mess up all the lures but only one. When i mean a bad spot is that the epoxy is still soft and sticky. But it is only on a small part of the lure and only on one lure so that is what I cant figure out why it happens.
I have been keeping all the bad lures trying to figure out what to do with them when i decided to dip one in propionate and see what happens to it. I dipped it in and tried to keep the propionate that ran off the lure into a separate jar just in case something bad happens or i mess up the good jar of prop. After the prop dried you could still see the bad spot but it was no longer soft and now i can fish the lure for myself:yeah:. I wouldnt see it to anyone but it has now solved my problem of fixing my troubled lures that didnt come off the wheel to good.
Just wanted to share my experince with everyone and maybe one of you guys could help me out with why my epoxy does what it does:whistle:.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 12:28 AM
Jacob , same thing ocassionally happens to me with my own epoxy , I blame it on not having kept the mixing relation of 10:4 (resin:hardener) well .
Another thing , that I've found out , that if starting to brush on that epoxy IMMEDIATELY after , say , two minutes of stirring it up in the mixing bin(I use small medication cups with "millilitres" divider marks) , on the first one or two lures the topcoat would tend to "de-mix" on the surface , leaving some spots uncovered .
After having covered the entire batch of lures(most likely up to 8 smaller and/or 5 bigger ones)with one mix , I'd just put a little more epoxy on these first two and brush them all over again , the de-mixed coat is still wet enough for doing this .
Now it would cover entirely , unless I'd have failed to keep the correct mixing relation .
Since this only happens to the first lures , I assume , that it is neccessary to let the epoxy mix set for a while after stirring , but this would shorten the processing time , so I'm alright with the way described above .
Some other folks say , that finger prints or other untidy spots on the lure could cause this problem of having certain spots uncovered , .......there is a thread about it somewhere in here , but I don't remember its title .
good luck , Dieter:yay:
Posted 26 June 2009 - 01:52 AM
Yes, I have read the things about finger prints being the cause for bad spots in the epoxy. IMO i dont think its 100% true in some cases because when i first started making lures i would touch the lure all the time with my hands while i was painting it:eek:. When i would put on the final coat i would not get the fish eyes or any bad spots. I was using unthinned epoxy then so i think that is the reason why. With thinned epoxy I think it makes a difference because there is such a smaller amount of epoxy (as in thickness i mean) that the epoxy will go around the oils. So since i use thinned epoxy now i wear clean gloves and i make sure not to touch my face or any of my body with the gloves. I even wear a resperator so my spit nor snot can ever acciedently get on the lure lol.
I think if i let the epoxy settle for a minute or longer I think some of the epoxy will settle into the middle of the bottom of the can and then I could mix it agian and i will be able to get a good mix with the epoxy and my bad spots will be gone hopefully.
Also another thing when i mean bad epoxy i dont mean like craters and what not i mean portions that dont seem to be mixed well enough. Its quite odd because this has only started to happen when i began using devcon 2 ton:?.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:16 AM
try using a popsickle stick to mix it need some i will mail you some try using a hot hair dryer and kids art brushes and feather it all together ........al
Edited by shade_skyhi, 26 June 2009 - 02:18 AM.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:04 AM
Sounds like your epoxy isn't completely mixed. Try mixing it on some tape, applied to the work table you use. I lay out two parallel, equal lines of epoxy and hardener, and then use a wooden tooth pick to mix the two. I generally mix it in small, circular motions, and move the two components back and forth until it's completely mixed. I don't worry about creating bubbles. I think that if I mix it so gently that there are no bubbles, I don't mix it completely.
Having said all that, glue epoxy like D2T is a really hard material to get right as a top coat. I'm lucky to get 5 minutes working time per batch. Do one lure at a time.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:25 AM
MIX MIX MIX MIX MIX MIX MIX MIX.... then mix again... until it looks white not clear.. then take a hair dryer and heat up your lure before you spread the epoxy over the bait..it helps you spread it faster and thinner..THINNER is better NOT THICKER.. I dont use epoxy anymore but that is what I use to do when I did use it as a clearcoat..
Posted 26 June 2009 - 12:07 PM
Thanks for the offer but I have tons of Popsicle sticks just for the purpose of mixing D2T. I also use acid brushes that I trimmed and pinched down at the end of the brush so the bristles don't go anywhere for brushing on the epoxy. I would use better brushes for brushing the epoxy on but I dont want to clean the brushes after every use of doing a batch of lures.
@ everyone else,
Yes I agree with ya Mark and Tater, I bet you that I am not mixing the epoxy well enough:o. I wish i could get devcon in single tubes so i could pour the epoxy out in equal amounts. I have a triple beam balance so that was the way that i did all my old epoxy and i would get a perfect mix every time. Since I switched to devcon I never really know how accurate of a ratio i am getting and it just bugs me everytime I use that stuff:drool:.
Also another thing i know its kinda off topic but I was on another forum and someone metioned pelucid as a clear coat. Googled it and boy is that sutff pretty darn pricey. So i was wondering if anyone here has messed with that stuff? It sounds to be pretty good from what the manufacture says.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:08 PM
Using a flat surface for mixing can provide the opportunity for some of one of the parts of the D2T to not be mixed at the same proportion.
I use plastic disposable ice trays for mixing D2T for this very reason. they contain all the D2T in a confined space and one that is shallower at the bottom than at the top. It also allows me to exhale my breath (CO2) into the confined space so any bubbles are CO2 and comes out of the mix very quickly.
Ice trays are 3/$1 and each have about 14 mixing spaces.
The best way to fix the bad spots is to coat it again with D2T.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:34 PM
I have been using the bottom of Plaster of Paris cans lately since they are free. I learned mixing on flat surfaces the hard way so I try to always mix in a concave cup.
What the Co2 do to the epoxy though? Does it help get all the bubbles out of the D2T?
Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:48 PM
Filling the small confined space with al lot of CO2 displaces the air, CO2 comes out of and into solution about 100 X faster than air because of the Nitrogen in the air. It just totally eliminates the bubble issue, and allows me to mix it pretty vigorusly, Any boubles come out of the D2T before I can get the brush to start applying it.
It does help to have the small space for that reason rather than a flat open space like the can bottom.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 03:53 PM
I think i get it, i never really did good in science class:lolhuh:, well thanks for explaining though. On my next batch of lures ill try this and see what happens.
Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:10 PM
A soft area on an otherwise hard topcoat is caused by poor mixing. Failure to harden all over the lure is caused by poor measuring or very rarely, by a bad batch of epoxy. I mix in a concave jar top coated with foil that holds just enough epoxy to topcoat a few baits and I use a 1/2" wide plastic strip. Mix the beejesus out of it! Don't worry about air bubbles in the mix. If you use the right of brush to apply it, the tiny bubbles disappear as you brush the epoxy on the bait.
I know flux brushes are popular but I much prefer a flat, 1/4" wide square end artist's brush. The finer bristles erase small bubbles as you apply the epoxy and it does a more exact and uniform job. Clean the brush thoroughly after use and you can use it for years. Mine cost $2 each, have lasted hundreds of baits, so which is cheaper? flux or artist?
Posted 26 June 2009 - 06:26 PM
You have yourself a very good point there BobP, so then what do you clean you brushes in?
Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:00 PM
I wipe the excess epoxy off the bristles and dunk the brush in a small jar of either lacquer thinner or acetone. Work the bristles back and forth, spreading them out on the bottom of the jar for 5-10 seconds. Take it out and vigorously brush it dry on a cotton towel. Take a look at the bristles to see they are all separate. If not, repeat. Takes 20-30 seconds.
Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:49 PM
I always keep a hair dryer close and ready because I will do about 4 to 5 lures at a time and since I do not have a drying wheel, I have to watch for the seperation. You can blow some hot air onto the D2T and it will thin out a little to put the brush on it again. I have a couple server fans that blow onto the lures while I turn them every min or two. I havent had too many problems this way but I am definitely looking to build a wheel since I am addicted to painting these dang lures.
Posted 12 July 2009 - 01:25 PM
You have gotten some good advice on how to correct your problem.
If your epoxy isn't curing all the way then you haven't mixed correctly. I do all my mixing in disposable dixie cups from Wal-Mart and I stir with a plastic knife. Measure each part with syringes. Stir, stir, stir. I don't like to use a hair dryer to thin the epoxy because you blow dust on the lure when doing so. I use a propane torch running very low. If you end up with spots (dimples) without epoxy it is caused by one of two things, contamination of some kind, usually your fingers or the coat you put on was too thin. To correct this, clean the epoxy with rubbing alcohol and put on a second coat.
One other thing, it is NOT necessary to thin D2T.
Posted 13 July 2009 - 01:56 AM
I agree with what Riverman said. But every once in a while I get a tube of Devon that will act funky for whatever reason. I just had once recently where about every fourth lure would experience what your talking about. And I never thin Devcon. No way to fix other than add another coat. Sometimes I think we get to picky about our finished product...
Posted 13 July 2009 - 03:30 AM
Jacob- I have used a can of Pelucid and it is good stuff, the same as DN c/c, with the same oxygen problems- PPC - Pelucid -
I have something new though (new to me) which seems to be the same stuff but without the moisture cure, but the jury is still out on this - it's about twice the price of 'Pelucid' though.
As for your D2T problem, I have had my fair share of these too. and like all are saying, mix, mix, and mix some more - I have found the biggest culprit of "fish eyeing" to be the underlying paint (w/b acrylic) which I suspect has additives such as styrates and silicones etc, anyway the sure-fire cure is to isolate it all by spraying on a clear sealer coat first and allowing it to fully dry before applying the D2T- I have been using 'clear hard shellac' for some time now, it has worked well for me, I used to use matte artists pastel sealer but found it to be a bit hit and miss.pete
Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:51 AM
LOL I think I have to agree with ya on this one. I think the fish should be the one that decides this out:wink:
I have read on some other forums about the pelucid and it said that it was some very nasty stuff to work with. So I was wondering that when you were working with it if you noticed any bad things with this stuff, like as in health wise?
Thanks for all your help guys! lol next time I go to mix some devcon ill be sure that its mixed all the way:lol: