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Not all AZEK is the same
17 replies to this topic
Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:31 AM
I had used the biege 1"X 5 1/2" decking for my lures, but found out it was also available in white.
Since I prime my lures white, I thought this would help to make coverage easier, so I ordered a piece of the 1"X 5 1/2" decking in white.
They are not the same, at least in terms of texture.
I had been able to sand the beige to a smooth finish, but the white has a much coarser texture, and does not sand out smooth.
I found this out when I primed a batch of 5" gliders, that I had made out of the new stuff as test pieces.
While the matl. actually sanded and machined a little easier than the biege stuff, it was still strong, when I did a pull test with a screw eye.
I primed them, and saw that all the little nooks and crannies, to steal from the English muffin commercial, came right through instead of filling, even with several coats of primer.
I'm probably going to dip them in Minwax Polyacrylic, to see if that fills the holes and lets me get a smoother surface.
Otherwise, I'll have paint one up and see if the crappy surface shows through in the finish, or use bondo on the whole surface, which is a royal pain.
Fortunately, I'm glad I have these smaller gliders to use to solve the problem.
I have already cut out 12 jointed swimbaits from it so far, but I hane not gotten into the shaping and finishing yet, so I still have time to play around and solve this problem.
I remembered that someone here said they were able to heat burnish their PVC, so I tried that, but it didn't work.
If anyone has encountered this problem, and solved it, I'd love to hear about it.
Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:38 AM
That stinks about that stuff. You can always treat this stuff like wood and do multiple coats of epoxy or sealer until the base is smooth. I do that on all of my lures, I dip them in propionate until they look nice and smooth and thats when I start to paint them and they come out to look quite nice and clean.
Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:56 AM
I meant to ask in one of our previous PM's about the wood fiber in the beige Azek. I found that interesting because as far as I can tell the white Azek, which I am using, does not have any wood fibers in it. Are you finding the same thing with the white you are using. As for the sanding I have not had a problem with getting a smooth finish when final sanding with a foam 180 fine sanding pad. Forgot which brand but it came from Lowe's. I also found that the darker colors definately hide some of the bad spots. With that all said let me also say that my final finish is far from immaculate. I figure the guys who are getting my baits know they are catching fish and once that happens they are bound to get chewed on and damage the final product anyways. We should all have pride in our work, but unless they are major flaws I wonder if it will be a major problem. BTW with all this said I have been giving the baits one coat of the topcoat and then painting to see if that cleans things up a bit more before painting.
Posted 02 July 2009 - 08:35 PM
That's just great, something else I am going to have to try! Guess I should get out more often, I have never heard of anybody using that stuff to make baits out of. Is it pretty bouyant?
Posted 02 July 2009 - 08:48 PM
Hi, yes I had that problem with the 5/4" x 4"Azek. I tried paint with poor results, I solved it by spreading Elmers White Carpenters Wood Filler into all the nooks and crannies. Goes on easy, dries fast and sands quickly. I finish with a couple coat of Krylon white spray paint for Plastic. Works for me.
Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:49 AM
I double dipped the batch of gliders that I had already primed in Minwax Polyacrylic, which is what I used to use as a wood sealer. It seems to have filled a lot of the voids.
I'll find out today.
I like the glue idea. I have it by the gallon, so I'll try that. Thanks for the idea.
I was totally surprised bythe difference in the texture from beige to white.
The stuff I got is too coarse/pitted to even paint without some kind of a filler.
If I can use Huginn's idea, and just coat them with yellow glue first, or dip them in the Minwax, then it's no big deal.
Sorry to drag you down with the rest of us.
Posted 03 July 2009 - 08:16 AM
Mark its not wood glue it's Elmers White Carpenters Wood Filler ,
it's used to fill imperfections in wood but in this case plastic.
sorry for the confusion.
Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:03 AM
I wonder what the difference is between the boards we each got. Is the problem evident from the "end grain"? I am ready to buy a new piece and would hate to run into the problem you are facing. My board has one textured side that I run off with the table saw and one "coated" very smooth side that also comes off when cutting the bait. The long edge, prior to me cutting off when shaping, is the texture of 120 sand paper. After the bait is shaped it is all very consistent in texture and easily sanded smooth.
Like I said for it's cost I would hate to buy a new piece and end up with the challenges you are facing.
Good luck with a solution,
Posted 03 July 2009 - 11:58 AM
Thanks for the knock on the head. I should read more thoroughly.
Is that the same kind of stuff as Famowood, which I also have plenty of onhand?
Both board look alike on the finished face and the back.
The end grain on the white board does look and feel coarser.
If I can't make the blanks smooth enough easily, I'll go back to the beige, and just put another coat of primer on to get the coverage.
That's what I get for being greedy, and thinking I could outsmart Murphy's Law.
Things just don't seem to work out the way we plan. Maybe it's just fate, that we're doomed to work harder than we want to, no matter what. Can't catch a break.
I guess the other Murphy, Eddie, had it right when he said, "If sh*t was worth something, poor people would be born with no a$$holes."
Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:50 PM
I never used famowood but not all wood fillers are the same. The elmers is very fine grained and works nicely. I did try a couple others that didn't work and stopped looking after the elmers did the job.
Posted 04 July 2009 - 06:51 PM
I have used the elmers filler in the past on wood lures to fix gouges and fill weight holes. It is just the traditional "white" elmers glue with wood flour in it as a filler. It sands like spackle. Acts like it too....when you overcast and hit the rocks.......say "bye bye" to your lure.......that stuff cracks out from the shock.....
Keep in mind that elmers glue is not plastic...it is organic. The polyacrylic is plastic and has good adhesive properties when it comes to sticking to other plastics. Also, some slow curing epoxy will really lock itself in to the pvc nooks. I would use the epoxy...with the polyacrylic as a close second.......
Edited by Sonny.Barile, 04 July 2009 - 06:57 PM.
Posted 04 July 2009 - 08:31 PM
Thanks for the heads up Sonny.
Hardness is one of the best features of PVC, so I can see that using a spackle-like matl. would cancel that out.
I'll stick with the poly acrylic for now. Dipping seems to put on a pretty thick coat, so dipping two or three times should give me enough coverage to achieve a smoother, not perfectly smooth, surface for painting. I'm not looking for perfection, just something that works.
I'll let you know how it works out.
Posted 06 July 2009 - 04:22 PM
Mark not looking for perfection, lol. Who you trying to fool here Mark? I have seen your lures. They are approaching just that.
Posted 06 July 2009 - 06:20 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I try to get the actions perfect, and the paint jobs nice. I'm no artist, but "I did sleep in a Best Western last night". I don't think people will buy lures with achne.
I guess I'm spoiled. The beige AZEK was such an easy matl. to use and finish, I just want the white stuff to be the same.
Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:04 PM
I just finished painting four surface gliders I made with the white AZEK.
I put bondo over the ballast holes, and over the worst spots, sanded them down with 80 grit, and then double dipped them in Minwax Polyacrylic, set sanding with 400 grit between dips. That smoothed out a lot of the surface imperfections.
Then I primed them with flat white rattle can primer. I immediately saw a ton of pin holes that the poly didn't fill. After three coats of primer, and letting it dry for 2 hrs, I wet sanded that, and most of the pinholes were gone.
I just finished painting two in a semi-sexy pattern, and two in sparkle white. The combination of the Wicked White undercoat, pearl white over that, and sparkle white over that still left a few pin holes.
Same with the various coats for the sexy shad.
I'll try one more lure, with two more dippings with the poly. After all, I have all this white AZEK.
If that doesn't do it, I'll go back to the beige AZEK.
I'm looking for labor saving, not labor intensive.
Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:14 PM
A friend of mine works where pvc material is manufactured.It's not decking but trim boards.The company is Kleer Lumber but I don't think it is marketed under the same name.He told me that when humidity rises the product is hard to run.Something to do with air bubbles and density.It probably doesn't make difference until it is turned or shaped.He gave me a piece to fool around with but that won't happen until winter.
Posted 22 July 2009 - 08:09 AM
I just picked up a piece of the brown decking, to see if the white material was, indeed, trim board.
The brown stuff has the same coarse texture inside, and finishes out with voids, too.
I think they figured out they could use less of the PVC in the manuf. process, and still make it work for decking.
I just made two 10" QT trouts out of the last piece of the old stuff I had, and two from the new.
I'm going out to the garage to redip the new ones, since they look like they have teenage acne.
I'm going to make a run to the lumber yard where I got the first AZEK, to see if they have any of the original stuff left.
Edited by mark poulson, 22 July 2009 - 08:10 AM.