How To Paint A Croc
7 replies to this topic
Posted 05 July 2009 - 11:04 AM
Lurked here for a long time, but not into posting much (lack of computer skills). I need to say thanks to all that have shared their ideas and knowledge on this site. Made a few baits in the past, but not too much now. Moved on to another obsession, boat building. Many of the skills learned here apply to other wood working.
In my simple mind, boats and lures are very similar in construction. Most(all that I could tell) home builders of wooden boats epoxy and then paint or varnish over the epoxy for UV protection. I did this, but the paint is not very durable ( scuff resistance). I proposed to paint first. Epoxy over that, and then top coat with varnish for UV protection. Reaction was, "It want work., It would cost too much.,or It might, but just do like this...". Nobody had ever tried it or known of it being done, just had been told to do it the epoxy first way.
Any thoughts or ideas from the paint experts on here.
PS; My wooden boat is a Croc model, designed by Gator Boats. A picture is posted in the boat building forum here.
Posted 05 July 2009 - 11:59 AM
I'm not a boat painter but it seems to me that the 'traditional way' of finishing a boat probably has good reasoning behind it. Tradition has the hardest, toughest layer (epoxy) directly bonded to what it needs to protect (wood), then covered by layers that protect the epoxy from UV and impact, make it look pretty, and keep it feasible to refinish in the future. Epoxy bonds much better to a wood surface than to a layer of paint. Also, if you foresee the need to refinish the boat in the future, sanding solvent based paint and varnish is LOTS easier than sanding epoxy. In this case, 'tradition' is probably what works best until some new coating technology comes along.
Edited by BobP, 05 July 2009 - 12:01 PM.
Posted 05 July 2009 - 01:31 PM
Good points. I'm about as traditional as anybody. A young wife made her husband roast. He said it was the best he had ever eaten, and asked how she cooked it. She said she bought a 10lb. roast, cut both ends off and baked it. He asked why she cut the ends off. She said that was how her mother told her to do it. She asked her mother why she cut the ends off. She said she did not know, that was how grandma did it. They called grandma and asked her why she cut the ends of the 10lb. roast off. She said to make it fit in her small pot.
I intended to do trial tests on some scrap wood, but have not done so. My thinking is if it works on baits it should on a boat. Epoxy may bond better to bare wood, but is the bond to painted wood good enough? It works on baits. Epoxy with fiberglass cloth over wooden boat (actually a mold that is not removed) should (could) stand on its own strength even if the wood was completely removed. I'm talking small non motor powered class boats.
Almost know I will have to do one this way to find out. Hoped someone on this site would have knowledge about the bonding issue. Also saw water base paint mixed with epoxy and painted onto a bait. Could this work on a boat?
I see your point about refinishing. This would be an issue if one wanted to change colors.
Posted 05 July 2009 - 02:03 PM
I had a friend many years ago that had a wooden boat that his father built. He told me that it was painted with epoxy paint.
Posted 05 July 2009 - 09:41 PM
You can make a small incision in an epoxy topcoated bait and peel the epoxy off the whole bait without much trouble. The weak point is the acrylic paint. The epoxy bonds to it but the paint layer itself is too weak to provide much adhesion. A boat's surface undergoes a lot of impact abuse and when the epoxy has aged awhile, it becomes brittle and easier to crack. I'm all for experimentation but if it were my boat, I'd choose one marine paint company, buy a set of their compatible coatings, and follow their recommendation on how to apply it. JMHO, that's your best shot at a durable finish.
Posted 05 July 2009 - 11:17 PM
Thanks for the info about top coat failure of lures. I remembered discussions about this, but thought the problem was with oil base paints. Paint over epoxy doesn't bond very well either. I will do the experiment on scrap board.
Does anybody know about mixing paint and epoxy? Guess this would be the same as the epoxy paint you can buy.
Posted 06 July 2009 - 02:32 PM
From rod building, I learned that anything you add to epoxy mix compromises its strength to some extent. If you want to color epoxy, I would investigate using pigments and/or dye - not paint. Acrylic paint contains water, flow enhancers like glycerin, and other chemicals that are just not needed, and may do harm to the finish. Sometimes DIY witches brews work OK but most times, not.
Posted 06 July 2009 - 04:33 PM
Absolutely Do Not Paint Your Boat Before Epoxy Is Applied!!!!!!! I can not stress this enough. The epoxy is applied to strengthen the boat and has to bond directly to the wood. Also do not add anything to the epoxy to color it. You need to go to a boat building Forum.
Here is a link to one that will answer all the questions you have for free. Montana Riverboats Driftboat Building Fly Tying History Photos and Tutorials
I have built several boats and you need to follow specific directions or they will fail! I promise. I have seen it happen and it is dangerous. I watched a drift boat built by a friend come apart in some whitewater once and three people were almost killed. Thats what happens when you do things your own way instead of following directions. This site also has some great plans to build. I have built 3 boats of theirs and they are my favorites.