gunnie3035

Non-swimmer Rat Bait

20 posts in this topic

I built this 2 piece rat swimbait out of clay [see in my gallery pics]. I made the RTV molds and poured it out of resin. I got the resin mixture to exactly how I want it to sit/float in the water. But I cannot get this darn thing to swim at all. It would be a great twitch bait, but I'm after side to side wobble at slow speed. I've tried everything I can think of; ie, different sized bills, different bill angles, and added weight to all different parts of the bait. I've built a few wooden swims before and never had such a problem getting them to swim. This one is perfect and one of a kind. Any ideas other than the obvious ones I've already tried??

The only other ideas I've had is maybe a cupped bill or perhaps a different location on the line tie.

P.S. I have a single hook near the joint on the front section of the bait. The line tie is straight out of the nose. And I've tried single screw eye joints as well as double screw eye joints. There has got to be a way to make this thing swim. Maybe the design/shape of the bait is just wrong??

I can post another picture if someone has an idea to make this work.

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Are you still using a worm as the tail? Do you get any action from the back halve and or tail at all?

Take a look at the Mann's Wakebait. Have you tried a modest lip angle, with the tie being under the nose of the bait?

MWES-AS.JPG

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When I have a jointed bait that doesn't swim, the first thing I do is remove the tail, to see if that's dampening the swimming action.

In general, I try to keep the tail section as light as possible, whether it's a floater or a sinking bait. No ballast at all in the tail, so it floats. Even on sinkers, a floating tail is critical. When you retrieve a sinker, if the tail is heavy, it will drag down, and the bait will swim in an exaggerated head up position.

I also try to make the last hinge joint as free as possible. You might try increasing the gap to see if that helps.

I've found that two piece lures do need a lip to swim, and the angle on your first/top bait in the gallery picture looks about right.

I noticed the bottom of the lure is flat. I don't think this should affect it's action, but it's something to think about if nothing else works.

It also looks to me like the front section is as wide, or wider, than the bill

Maybe a wider bill, since the wider the bill, the wider the wiggle. Or narrow up the hips on the front section, if that's possible.

Other than trying those changes, I can't see what's wrong with your rat. It should be shaking it's tail off!

Good luck. That's too pretty a lure to not work. :worship:

Edited by mark poulson

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Yes, I'm still using the worm as a tail. I just posted some new pictures of the ones I've been working on. Its probably an easy fix, but I'm stumped......

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I have to agree with mark. I bet if you remove the tail, it will swim great.

If this is the case, the tail may have to be something much lighter, feathers or threads. Pity, that tail really looks the part. Nice carving of the master too.

Dave

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Gunnie, have you tried using the screw in spring type of holders (like on a frog hook) to hold the worm and clip it to an eye on the back of the rat? That would allow the tail to pivot and might not dampen the action so much and makes it replaceable.

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Gunnie, have you tried using the screw in spring type of holders (like on a frog hook) to hold the worm and clip it to an eye on the back of the rat? That would allow the tail to pivot and might not dampen the action so much and makes it replaceable.

Brilliant! That would turn it into a 3 piece lure, which should swim better. :worship:

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ive been working on some rat baits as well try moving the line tie under the nose one the one in the top pic i tried having it right at the nose and when i put the line tie under the nose it came to life

good looking carving:yay:

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Move the line tie under the nose and right on top of the lip. Same problem I had with my first jointed wake bait, moving the line tie fixed the problem.

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I took the tail off last night and it had little effect on the action of the bait. However, the tail did dampen the action of the bait so it is something to watch for. I moved the line tie undeneath the nose with little effect, but I didn't move it all the way back to the bill as suggested, that might just work. The tail section has no weight and is super bouyant, so I added a bunch of weight to where the the bait rested with the nose up and the tail just below the surface. I removed the bill and got a slight side to side wobble, not enough, but at least it was a sign of life. I also increased the distance between the joints, which should have helped, but it didn't.

If possible I would like the bait to have no bill at all, this way I could add a rear hook and it wouldnt foul w/the front one. The jointed tail as suggested by Gator is a grand idea, I will try it out tonight. All I need is a little wobble from the front half and the tail action would be great.

After staring at the bait for hours, I think the main problem is the shape. The flat bottom and streamline shape doesn't allow enough resistance from the water to enter the joint for a good kick. I may have to grind a little off the bottom to get a concave shape and maybe a little lip on the bottom rear.

I still see no reason why this stupid thing shouldnt swim with a flat bill. If a guy wanted a twitch bait with 180 degree turn this is the bait. I may cut an old spoon in half and see if the cupped bill will make a difference.

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@ gunnie3035

I agree , that part of the problem is the flat bottom , it counterworks any initial rolling of the body , that might get a sufficient wobble and tail swing going .

Have you also tried to mount a longer lip(but not as wide as the thickest body part) , it should cause more leverage around the tow eye and maybe kick your lure to finally wiggle ?

good luck:yay: , diemai

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As you said, there's no reason that bait shouldn't swim. It must be something in the shape. I'd thin up the front section, and see if that helps.

The I round over the nose more, to give it more water resistance and force the water in wider arc around the lure.

It is so beautiful as it is, I'd hate to change anything, but, once you get it to swim well, you can go back and redo your mold.

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IMHO - the rat bait is very cool. I like the detail you added with the look of the hairs! As to your swimming issues.

I would create a larger gap, between the two pieces, and make the V in the back section wider. Think of a really well rounded, baby got back butt!

As far as the lip goes......Keep the lip barely angled towards the front, and you may want to try the line tie in center of lip!

Just my observations after looking at your pictures!

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Rounding the bottom might be the answer if that doesn't work you might want to move the joint farther up. Making a longer tail section and shorter front. If you get that wide part to be the start of the joint it can catch more of the water. Not sure if that will make sense or not

Edit- could also try a bill that has an angle of a diving bait and see what happens. The flat bottom might keep it on top still.

Edited by ebby

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Ok boys, I finally got this thing to swim. I had to add 6 grams of lead to the tail section. I put a hook hanger for a tail mount and used a hitch-hiker screw-loc to attach the tail rather than gluing [Thanks Gator]. As Diemai suggested I had to add length to the bill. The first bill I tried was basically a long rectangle shape. I changed the shape just for eye apeal and its still a little bigger than I would like, but it kicks really nice. Width made little difference for some reason, but once you got more length it came to life. I built a couple for testing and I'm sure there will be more modifications in the future, but I would like to thank everyone for helping me out!!!

I will post a picture in a few minutes......

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Like others, I was amazed it did not swim in the first place, it looked right. Just goes to show how finicky this persuit can be. Glad you got it sorted and thanks for the feed back (very important, so we can all learn something).

Dave

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Gunnie,

I just had a Doh! moment.

Your bait is a two piece, and I've always had trouble getting two piece lures to swim without a lip.

I just rediscovered (that's senior speak for remembered) this with a 3" bluegill bait I made last month.

I added a third joint to make mine swim.

Adding a tail with a hitchhiker is doing the same thing, and should have worked by itself.

But I suspect your lure is so thick in comparison to length that it probably took a lot more to get it to swim, and so the long lip was necessary.

I've made lures that were almost as tall as they were long, 2 1/4" to 4" length, and the swam fine, as long as they were three piece.

But they were only 5/8"+- thick.

I think, in order to get the rat to swim without a lip, you'll have to add a real third section, one with enough mass to create some kind of lag when the lure starts to swim.

And the tail section can't be too long.

I just made a 4" shad jointed bait, which, at first, had three sections. It swam at medium and fast retrieves, but not at slow speeds.

The tail section was almost twice as long as the middle section, so I cut it in half and made it a four piece. Now it swims fine at all speeds.

So many variables, so little time. :lol:

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I think your absolutely right Mark. The mistake I made was cutting the clay model before I poured a master. At the time I was thinking if I make the cut then I can build a mold for each piece therefore all the baits would be exactly the same. Then I wouldn't need to cut the joint in each bait. RTV cost also played a role at $32 per pound after shipping. Looking back I should have molded a master first, made the cut or cuts, and then poured a production mold. I suppose I could hot glue the master back together, fill in the cut with clay, and make another mold. Live and learn I guess...

I sort of built this thing on a spur of the moment idea. And I had some old plex glass hanging around I used for a bill until the lexan arrives. I also had some circuit board bills too. I didn't use them at first because I thought with the weight of the bait smacking things from time to time it may not be durable enough. But after installing one on the rat it swims great. I think the circuit bill is a better option. It cuts through the water better and has enough flexability to give a little vibration to the bait. I tried to break one and they are pretty tough........

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I just want one (ok two) once you've perfected it, heck you don't even have to paint it! or put a tail on it! One for the boat and one to scare the xxx out of my wife. :lolhuh::lolhuh::lolhuh:

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I just want one (ok two) once you've perfected it, heck you don't even have to paint it! or put a tail on it! One for the boat and one to scare the xxx out of my wife. :lolhuh::lolhuh::lolhuh:

You're right on, on both counts. :wink:

Gunnie,

If you like a little vibration in your bills, try using the divider from a Plano box for one.

Especially for longer bills, they make a bill that is flexible, and will vibrate. I think that makes the bait a little less predictable, which isn't a bad thing.

Plus, if you're like me, you have a ton of the lying around. :lol:

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