Metal Swimbait Or Jointed Spoon ????
, Aug 06 2009 03:51 AM
22 replies to this topic
Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:51 AM
Hi , folks ,
You might have seen in the gallery , that I'm into spoon making quite a bit recently , ........and comments by spoopa and Vodkaman got me thinking..........
spoopa had suggested making a jointed spoon , which I assumed to be impossible , .....Vodkaman said , that he thought at first glance , that the lure in my video "Clicking Mouse Spoon" was a swimbait , due to its swimming action !
Took all this into consideration , did some sketching two weeks ago , ......about 10 days ago I have made the production templates and finally yesterday at work I have shaped the first prototype displayed in here , bath tub tested it straightaway last night after work
To my surprise it worked quite well:)
, I had expected it to have no action at all but just pull straight upward without any wobble or only a very moderate one .
But the deeply cupped front section of 1,5 mm stainless steel sheet(all rear sections 1,0 mm) has an extremely strong body roll from one side to the other , even more than 180° pivoting around it's length axis , ............the four rear sections prevent it from turning over entirely , so it does not get to spin .
The tail section twists about 80° against the front section , the small flaps on either end of the sections do limit the play of all sections against one another , I have taken three pictures to display the largest possible play in either direction(guess , that some adjustments could be done by altering the flaps angles).
Sadly still the hooks came to be within reach of one another , thus are possible to tangle whilst casting ,..... but it requires some field testing to determine whether they really would do frequently ?
The tail sections do not move as much in a "snake-like" manner , as they would do on an ordinary hardbody swimbait , but they also don't come in without any attractive moves as well !
I indent to do another prototype today with a front section of thinner material(also 1,0 mm) and not as deeply cupped crosswise , but also curved down its length .
This way I am hoping to reduce the strong roll of the front section(virtually the "engine" of the whole thing) but get it to swim a little more to either side , thus causing the tail to gain more of that "snake" action .
Any input , idea and comment concerning that intended increase of that typical swimbait action is very welcome .
Wish me luck , ...thanks for looking , .......greetz:yay: , diemai
PS : containing pictures display top ,-and bottom view
Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:55 AM
Okay , folks ,
Here are the three pictures displaying the play of the sections against one another !
thanks for looking:yes: , ....greetz
Posted 06 August 2009 - 04:12 AM
Love it. I like the tangs, to limit the movement, I presume to prevent tangles while casting.
You will have to make a video for us.
Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:22 AM
I love how your mind works. Amazing.
I would guess that, to get the snake-like swimming action of a wooden swimbait, you'd probably have to figure out some way to turn the tail section so it's at 90 degrees to the spoon. That way, the spoon would move side to side, and so would the tail.
Maybe double tabs, bent both ways, would limit the movement enough to prevent hook fouling on the cast.
Posted 06 August 2009 - 10:31 AM
That thing looks wicked Dieter!
I bet one way to get the hooks from tangling with each other is to not place them directly over each other. Like place one hook at the head and the other in the back of the spoon. The only drawback to this is that you may get you fishing line tangled with the front hook if the hook was to close to it.
Then maybe another way to get more action is to have the tail segments connected with one split in the center of the tail vs two:?
This also reminds me of a flasher. It is a giant flat spoon with only the rear section of it kicked out to produce a wobble. There are two purposes of the flasher, to get the fishes attention and to give a lure more action. This is achieved with a very short drop back from the flasher. So the flasher has such a high wobble that it transfer to the lure trailing behind it cause it to have more wobble.
Edited by spoopa, 06 August 2009 - 10:35 AM.
Posted 06 August 2009 - 10:40 AM
Nice idea and craftsmanship. I could see this thing painted up and pulling some hogs in.
Could you bend the tabs inwards to reduce the movement? Most swimbaits when swimming anyway only move a certain amount even though they have the ability to pivot into a full "U".
Posted 06 August 2009 - 11:49 AM
Nice idea. I'm not so sure I'd change anything! Spoons roll, swimbaits swim. Both catch fish.
Posted 06 August 2009 - 02:58 PM
Thanks for all your comments , guys , much appreciated:worship: !
Made another one today with a differently cupped first section , just to see how that one would act .
If I'd have a change next week to get to a certain swim , I'll try making a short video there , ......there are some long pontoon platforms in there , perfect for taking lures in the water just by walking alongside .
@ mark poulson
Gee , Mark , I haven't thought about such before , .....it could work !
Need to think of an easy way to connect the parts 90° offset .
Hook fouling is not such an issue for me , ......not yet:lol:
! First I'd like to possibly get a better tail action , .....I have already considered about mounting clip-in open shank trebles or double hooks , these might also solve the problem(if it should occur frequently at all ?) .
Yes , if the small tabs would be bent further down(almost alingned) , this would reduce the largest possible swing of all sections against one another . It can easily be done with pliers , but yet the 1,0 mm sheet is rigid enough to retain shape and hold up well .
This one already has an appeal in my opinion , .......I only wanna try to have it swim a tad better , .........if I should fail , I'll throw this one and let the fish judge
Thanks again , fella's
, .....greetz:yay: , diemai
Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:20 PM
Don't know if this would kill the spoon wobble action, but if you added a second spoon section to the first making it rounded. It might give you a softer swimming action. You could attach the two halves with the existing slpit rings on the first half. On the other hand I may be way off.
Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:33 PM
Awesome stuff you got going on...I like the idea of possibly using only one split ring to join the segments. Perhaps you could try a Colorado style blade at the last segment….negative side of that is you can’t put a hook on it. I’ve been experimenting with that idea with my spinnerbaits (multiple blades off one barrel swivel). Good luck producing a video, can’t wait to see that!
Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:40 PM
Do you mean two spoon sections behind one another with their cupping into same direction:? ?
If so ,..... I haven't tried such before , but in my theory the rear spoon would not provide any action , I guess , it would just act like a plane sheet as well pulled by the first spoon section , unless it would have a rigid connection to the front section , but this would render TWO cupped sections in front useless.
But I can't really tell as well:( , have to keep it in the back of my head , .......some day I gotta find out .....
@ now thats a fish
Undoubtely single splitring joints would provide more wiggling action , .......but this way it won't be possible to limit the sections moving against one another and thus provide more chances for hook fouling , I guess .
Concerning the colorado blade tail ,...... I could furnish any medium to large blade of thicker material and still rig a hook to it , ......it won't tear out .
But I guess , that I have found a solution by now :
Yesterday at work I had jammed together a second prototype with a moderately cupped and thinner(1,0 mm versus 1,5 mm at first) front section ,.... and as I was hoping , this one does not roll as much , but swims a tad more to the sides to also pull the tail behind ...........I knew before from similar spoon models , that heavier gauge material is more likely to roll over .
The tail movement has become better now on this one , I am pretty much satisfied with it ,........though one cannot quite compare it to a hardbody swimbait .
The reason for this might probably be , that compared to a swimbait , this jointed spoon rocks from one sideward edge to the other and due to its first sections body curve it swims to the sides for a fraction of the movement , pulling the tail behind .
But because of that approx. 180° rocking movement the tail sections have to follow , as they are connected with two splitrings up and down , ............if only the second section would be connected pivoting somehow , the entire tail would not have to follow that rocking motion of the front anymore...........!
In a nutshell .......the four rear sections constantly do twist within , and this means energy wasted and more friction(or resistance) in the water , thus this design could never quite swim with a pronounced "snake" move like a hardbody swimbait does .
I'm gonna try on a video next week somewhen to display ,..... hard to figure out just by pictures , I guess ?
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions , anyway , .........I do appreciate that:yes: !
greetz , diemai:yay:
Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:22 PM
Would adding additional split rings between the first two sections, so there is a less direct connection, help cut down on the side to side movement? By this I mean each set would be, for instance, three split rings long, to put a longer flex joint between the segments. Would that dampen the side to side?
Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:11 PM
It is really different..........I like it. I'm wondering what it would look like if you replaced the spoon portion of the lure with a wood body of some kind.
Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:09 AM
@ mark poulson
I am sure , that it would result into less resistance , so that the tail sections won't have to follow that 180° rocking movement of the front as much anymore , but probably such a triple splitring joint might also not transmit the intended sideward moves well anymore , that generate that "snake" pattern
I had already considered about it ,....... guess , that the wooden front section would need to be heavily weighted , otherwise such arrangement would probably turn out to become too tail-heavy:? ???
I also wonder , what would happen , if I'd furnish the front section like similar like a blade bait(Cycada) , with tow points at the back and a balance weight at the belly ?
I hardly use such baits , but I guess , that depending on their line tie location , one can also get a wide wobble out of them , which might enhance a "snake" move of the rear sections
Questions:? , more questions:yes: , ....... obviously there are still more things to try;)
Posted 08 August 2009 - 01:39 AM
I think I got it!
Its the design of your first spoon. I did some spoon testing today and i made a deeply cupped spoon like yours in the picture and then I had some commercial ones that had the rear end flaired out.
Well to my surprise I noticed that the spoon that had the tail slightly flaired out had a very wide wobble vs the deeply cupped spoon. So maybe if the first spoon was changed then maybe it would improve the action:?
Posted 08 August 2009 - 10:41 AM
Very sorry , Jacob , I don't know the meaning of "flaired out":huh:
, couldn't find it in my dictionary as well.............but if you are refering to most spoons "usual" shape and cupping , I can tell , that these can't take ANY larger attachment without loosing a big share of wobble .
Seems that this(viewed from the side) pronounced curvy shape is essential to still provide action , even with some kinda tail attached ,..... a deeper cupping crosswise lets the spoon roll more and give it a tendencey to overturn and swim upside down , just like an airfoil .
greetz , Dieter:yay:
Posted 10 August 2009 - 06:53 AM
Alright , folks ,
Here is the video , that I had promised to make , .......the lure action is much better to be seen this way as if only tested in a bath tub . YouTube - Homemade Jointed Fishing Spoon Prototype
If you should not quite understand my German accent:huh:
, .......the first pass of the bait back and forth the pontoon platform shows the deeply cupped version with a thicker 1,5 mm thick front section ,........the lure displayed in the second pass back and forth has a moderately cupped front section of only 1,0 mm thickness .
It seems to work more lively , but also rises up faster .
Hard to be seen , but these lures do not get spin , they only strongly rock from side to side .
Now , as I look at that video, I see , that the lure model does emit quite a nice flash , as the four rear sections plus the dragging front spoon swim along ,.......I guess , that the appeal of this lure would be strong enough to coax some strikes by local pike.........if only this dead calm , hot and humid weather would be gone one day:(
greetz , diemai:yay:
Posted 10 August 2009 - 10:01 AM
The lighter 1,0 mm definitely has a better action and flashes much more. I was surprised by the action leaning more towards a swimbait than that of a spoon, I expected more roll. I think you have a winner on your hands. Thanks for posting the video, always nice to have a live visual with the words.
Hope the weather breaks for you. Here are water temps are still way below normal and now so late in the summer season it doesn't look like we are going to get the warmer water. Guess I'll just start fishing the fall patterns.
Great job on the metal swimbait.
Posted 10 August 2009 - 03:52 PM
Hey Dieter, sorry about the confusion with the words:o. Lol I need to learn how to speak proper english without the slang in it....
Well what I meant by the "flaired out" is just a smaller cupping. It looks like you nailed it in the video with the action:yeah:. I really like the action you got to, it has a lot of flash to it and the action is very nice. It looks like a fish going through the water8O.
Posted 10 August 2009 - 09:11 PM
Diemai - again great result and beautiful work here - Isn't it great when you get such a good result after so many sleepless nights. Good on you - The lurkers will be all over this. Pete