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Medium/Deep Diving Muskie Crank Help
9 replies to this topic
Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:47 PM
I am developing a 6" shad style bait that I would like to be able to troll down 8-12 feet, possibly 15 feet. I am using western red cedar that is 5/8" thick and I have routed all edges. In the pictures, the line tie is a temporary one in the lip as well as the screw eye coming from the top as I am trying different lips. The current weight is 1.5 oz with just the bait, hooks, lip etc. No paint or epoxy yet. The lip angle is 15 degrees. I know there are some good builders on the site, so I wanted to get some feedback. The lure runs nice, but I don't think it's going to get to 12 feet, more like 6-8 feet. I am probably going to have to add a little weight to the lure also, but what about the lip angle and line tie location? Any suggestions? Please excuse the messy epoxy on the lip. This is just a test one! I appreciate the help.
Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:31 AM
@ Them Muskie Lures
I would not alter the angle of the lip to a more pointing forward one , ........I 've made a flat-sided lure recently like that , and it did not work .
If your lure is of cedar , I suppose it still has enough remaining buoancy to put some weghts inside its belly , that would be the easiest way to achive a deeper dive .
Looks to me , that it is pretty buoyant to only run at 6 to 8 feet .
Additional weighting would most likely stabilize the wobble and also slow it down a bit , ........I have gained the experience , that lures with a moderate wobble also have a stronger tendency to run deeper that those ones having a pronounced wiggle .
I would also taper the lip at it's base a little more , so that it would not protrude over the sides of the blank anymore , ........but leave its general width at tow eye position not to minor it's plane too much .
This way you'd change the leverage force of the oncoming water pressure to work stronger on the lip portion below(ahead) of the tow eye , thus enabling the lure to dig down a little steeper , this would also enhance the wobble .
I have learned , that a wider lip portion above(behind) the line tie most likely slows down action and diving performance .
The length of lip in general should be sufficient for your goal of 8 to 12 feet , some weighting should give you the desired results , .........but if you want the lure to remain highly buoyant(to Plaster of Paris off obstacles) , you need to make the lip longer and also place the line tie a little lower towards the tip of lip , not to have the lure blow out .
Try taping on some weights onto the belly of your lure and see what it does !
good luck , diemai:yay:
Posted 06 October 2009 - 03:46 AM
Follow Diemai's ideas and you will get the results you want.
- first thing to try is to add more weight. This shoud solve the problem
- it seems to me that the angle of the lip is more than 15 degrees, but this angle should be OK. If you try to lessen the angle, it will be more difficult to tune the lure. It may become unstable, especially when trolling (higher speed)
- a longer lip could add diving depth, but the longer the lip is, the more difficult to make the lure run true. Try small steps in growing the lip length
Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:25 AM
Imho, the lip angle is too steep, needs to be somewhere around 10-15 degrees. I also think the lip is too short. I've found that you get about 7-8 feet of depth from a 1 inch long lip. On my deep divers I use a 2 1/4 inch lip to hit 18 feet.
Posted 06 October 2009 - 07:15 PM
try at 15 degree lip angle. weight on the first hook hang. ar. . that design with belly weight will achive near 20 ft on a troll at 4 mph.we have developed a bait 11 inches with a 15 degree angle 31/2 inches. counter weighted on hook hangars. the dive curve is 28ft with 40ft of line at 2.9mph.. hope this helps some
Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:43 PM
I would try to move the line tie to the nose of the body. I feel the area of the bill behind the line tie acts more like part of the body instead of a longer bill trying to get more depth. Look at a ten inch Nils Master or a WIley Diver. You may have to watch the bill length so you will be able to tune it. If you are going to run a belly hook make sure it on for testing. good luck
Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:05 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I will try the suggestions. As usual, great feedback!
Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:47 PM
I'm not sure if diemai noted this, but watch the line tie. I made a while back a 9 inch deep diving bait with a large lip, about 2.24" long, and the key for me was where i had the line tie. I had to experiment a lot with it and found that the best place was a little shorter than 1/2 times the overall length of the lip. For instance, for a 2.5 inch lip, i would place my line tie anywhere from 1" to 1.2" from the rear of the lip. Hope this helps a little. You can PM me with quiestions and i might be able to send you a pircture or two.
Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:49 PM
For max depth their is an optimal position for the eye. Too far forward and the bait runs shallow. As the eye is moved rearwards, the depth increases up to its optimal position. If the eye is moved further rear, the depth once again reduces, but this time, the lure will have a heavy vibration and swim steeply nose down.
I cannot think of an easy way of determining this optimum position, other than trial and error. One way is to start with the lip way too long, so that it swims with the vibration and gradually trim the lip back until it achieves the depth you want.
Another way is to fit a temporary lip with a series of holes. Insert a loop of wire and test the lure. Try each position to find the optimal position. Both methods are tedious and time consuming
On future builds, you will have to keep the body identical as far as possible, or you will have to start again. The experienced builders (not me) get a 'feel' for the eye position and they get it right every time, I guess it is just practise and paying attention to how your lure behaves.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:55 AM
The best position for the line tie on my baits is just short of the half way point from the nose of the bait to the end of the lip.