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Problem soaking in prop?
13 replies to this topic
Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:27 AM
I was soaking my first lure last night in prop and when I woke up this morning it had split. I used a two piece design and used Devcon 5 min to glue it together. I'm guessing Devcon 5 min isn't the way to go as it was sticky when I took it out of the mixture. What glues do you guys use to glue your two halves together before soaking them in your prop solution?
Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:47 AM
I've never used the prop solution but I don't think you need to soak the bait over night. I think 3-5 dips with some drying time in between dips will work.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:31 AM
I think Benton's right. Dip a few times.
And don't use 5 minute epoxy for lure making. It is only water resistent, not water proof.
Stick with Devcon 2 ton 20 minute epoxy, which is water proof.
What you use to glue your two halves together would vary with the type of wood you use. Post that here, and wood lure makers can help you more than I can. I use Gorilla Glue, and clamp the two halves, and it works for me.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 09:46 AM
I don't want to use 2 Ton because it takes too long to setup. I thought people used it for gluing baits together, just not sealing.
How long does it take Gorilla glue to setup?
I'm using Balsa.
I was told to soak it for 30 min and up to 6 hours for the first time.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:00 AM
Soaking just does not make sense to me. The idea of prop dip is to build several layers of protection on the bait. Why not just seal the baits with the same method used on the baits you got from Big M (me).
Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:11 AM
I don't use balsa, so this may not apply to that wood.
For pine, fir, poplar, and most other harder woods, I coat one side, damp wet the other, then clamp them together and let them sit overnight. I make up blank stock from longer thin pieces, and then cut out the blanks, which are solid. I don't do a through wire bait.
If you want something that sets fast, try using the gap filling Zap crazy glue with their accelerant, which makes it set instantly. Do a test blank first, to be sure it works with balsa.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:33 AM
Big M, I had no idea this was you. I was told soaking it allows the prop to get into the bait more which makes it more durable (Like the vacuum method). I'll try soaking for only 30 min this time but at 30 min last night I could still see air bubbles coming out of it.
I went with prop hoping that it would speed up the process. I may just end up doing the method you told me.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:53 AM
if you don't soak the bait first you'll get airbubbles coming out and ruining the coat's your trying to build up at least thats what happens in my experience with hardwood's for pike lures.You could try the soaking before you glue the halves together as it's the acetone/thinners thats dissolving the glue then after you've glued the halves dip then lure
Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:09 AM
I haven't made balsa baits, but I've stripped some down to bare wood and repainted them.
I used the runny crazy glue as a quick, penetrating sealer, and hardener, and it worked just fine.
It's good for one or two lures, but it would be expensive for more than that. I was in a hurry, and it worked for the two lures I was refinishing.
As far as soaking goes, if you use a sealer that has a solvent and is designed to penetrate, it will eventually go all the way to the center of the lure, if you let it soak long enough. It will eventually drive out all the air in the wood's cells, and so you may see air bubbles coming out of the end grain for a long time.
But, remember, you're only trying to seal the outer layer of the wood, and make it harder, not drive out all the air, which is what makes the balsa so buoyant and good for lures in the first place.
When I seal the bigger wood baits I do make, I dip in Minwax Wood Hardener, for 30 seconds to a minute, and then let it sit for 24 hours. The wood hardener is designed to penetrate, but I don't need it to penetrate too far.
After 24 hours, I hit it with a hair dryer, and watch the end grain to see if it bubbles. If it does, it means there is still solvent in the lure, which will ruin the paint job by bubbling when I heat set the paint, so I let it sit another 24 hours.
I'm sure there's a point for each balsa lure which will give you exactly the amount you want the sealer to penetrate and harden, and still retain the buoyancy and action in your lures.
I think trial and error is the only way for you to figure it out for yourself.
Maybe some balsa makers on this site can help shorten the learning time.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 01:20 PM
I use 5 minute epoxy to join balsa, then dip 5-7 times in acetone/prop. I haven't had any problems with bubbles during later finishing steps (like when you heat cure acrylic latex paint shots), and the baits have been durable. If water gets in the bait it's toast anyway, so water resistant vs waterproof epoxy seems like a moot point. Plus using a slow glue is a PITA. Gorilla glue expands as it cures and its instructions say to moisten the surfaces first to activate the glue. IMO, black Gorilla glue seeping out onto the surface of the bait as it expands and adding water inside the bait are not good things for a balsa bait. I tried it. Once.
Edited by BobP, 08 October 2009 - 01:31 PM.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:32 PM
Some of the best prop sealing is done with an overnight soak. Guys that use it and havent gone down that road yet need to give it a shot.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 08:44 PM
So what do you use to install your hardware and/or glue your halves together.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:13 PM
Thad, just rub a coat of super glue on the bait and then 3-5 dips of the prop solution will hide the wood grain. Be that same as when I coat with thinned epoxy. The super glue makes balsa rock hard and the prop dip will give a nice smooth surface to paint on.
Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:40 PM
I'll give it a try.