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Devcon 2T and Dicks Nite pics ?
36 replies to this topic
Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:47 PM
I just started painting and have been playing around with Devcon 2 Ton on a couple throw aways to learn how to apply it.
I finished my first paint and clear job. No problems But was wondering about the glossy look
of D2T vs. Dick Nite's.
I was wondering if anyone could post some pics of 2 baits side by side ... with one cleared w/ Devcon 2 Ton and the other w/ Dick's.
To compare the difference in glossy look between the two.
Posted 10 October 2009 - 07:18 AM
Kris, I would love to show you some pics to show you the difference. However, I no longer have any baits top coated with D2T. Since you are fooling around with some "throw-aways" and have some coated with D2T you can convince yourself of difference by trying some DickNites over the D2T. Think you will find that paint that you have laid down will become crisper, and you will find that the DickNites will give you a much harder finish. The Devcon will stay a bit softer, and over time will yellow. After I learned about DickNites (a couple years ago) I went back and either sanded down the D2T or just coated over it.
IMHO, the resident expert here is Dean McClain. He is the great one who put me onto DickNites. After seeing his baits in real life, the colors are so crisp and the coating makes one think that they are looking "into" the bait. Best way I can describe it. Have another good friend who custom painted a bait for me to take to Mexico with me. The paint was exceptional, but just didn't look quite bright enough. Took a chance and put a couple of coats of DN over his clear. The result was amazing. The colors just sprung to life, and made a great bait just a bit better. Plus, the hard finish I ended up with withstood the pounding it got from the fish, and, alas, the rocks (would rather not explain that last ).
Bottom line, if you are looking for a very clear finish that is durable click on DickNites link here on the website and try some. Besides, it's easier to use 'cause there is no mixing. Storing can be a problem, but I have a pretty good method that has worked without fail for me. If you decide to go with DN, pm me and I will gladly explain.
Good luck with your choice, whichever way you go, and welcome to TU.
Posted 10 October 2009 - 10:15 AM
Pics won't do anything for you. They look the same, but I definitely had much better performance with DN.
But if you still want to see......
Edited by clamboni, 10 October 2009 - 10:24 AM.
Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:17 AM
In my opinion they are much different coatings. Although Devcon can be thinned it is generally a much thicker coating. Dick Nite works well but I find the issue with having to keep it air free a major hassle and have therefore quit using it. Devcon is hard to beat, easy to use and very durable.
Posted 10 October 2009 - 12:06 PM
Yeah, the storage thing was a pain. What I meant by pics won't help is that you won't see the difference in a picture. You can make a lure just as shiny with either one. They are definitely very different but good results can be had with both. The thing I liked most about the DN is that it soaked into the Createx when that's what I was using. It also did not tend to flake off as easily as 2T once the topcoat was compromised. DN also seemed more resistant to fine scratches.
Posted 10 October 2009 - 01:08 PM
Thanks for all the info.
I have been thinking about getting some DN to try out.
I did finish painting my first lure (Rattle-Trap) and put 1 coat of D2T on it. No problems ... everything came out. Shiny ... but not as shiny as I have seen some lures.
How many coats of DN do you need to put on??
BTW ... took my first lure out to the lake and caught several fish with it
Posted 10 October 2009 - 06:15 PM
Wait for Dean to chime in on brushing DN......I tried it but had problems.....it was all me, not the finish, I had trouble after the first coat getting it in the right places...only tried a couple times then started spraying. I think Dean said he uses two coats, most seem to use 1-2 when dipping........When i was spraying mine, I'd put on anywhere between 6-10 coats........not as bad as it sounds though, the coats are only about 2-3 minutes apart, 5 at most.
One other thing I hated about DN is that it takes so long to cure. Baits are fishable and tough after about a week, but I continued to notice a difference in them for up to a month.
Posted 10 October 2009 - 08:32 PM
I've used DN, Etex, 2-ton, and a host of other clears. There is a not another finish on the planet that will beat 2-ton. I don't care how many coats of this or that you put on it, 2-ton is the winner. I cant really say if DN is more durable than the other clear coats, but I will say this, there are many many two part moisture cured finishes out there that are as good as DN w/o the stupid storage hassle. Save the money and stick with the ease and simplicity of 2-ton.
Posted 11 October 2009 - 12:32 PM
Personally, if I could not use Dicknite's, I would find another moisture cure urethane for clearcoats. In my opinion, its total performance is far superior to any epoxy for the battering my baits take in woody cover. I've done a lot of repair to epoxy covered baits.
And I'm not here to argue, but simply to help people who are interested in building lures. I don't advocate one clear coat over another unless someone wants to know what, in my experience I think is best. I pay the same for my coatings as everyone else does, and I use all of them in some capacity, including 3 different epoxies, and there will probably be more in the future.
As far as storage goes, David and I use 2 different systems, and we're both happy. I brush on 3 or 4 coats of fresh Dicknite's topcoat. I enjoy using this particular product just like David says, because of total confidence in its performance, and ease of use. And I mix my epoxy bubble free which I learned to do after lots of epoxy mixing. I still find storing and using Dicknite's much easier than using epoxy.
Probably my biggest issue with epoxy is attempting to coat lures which have sharp angles on them, and maintaining an even coating thickness, or with crankbaits, ending up with more epoxy on the lip than on the nose of the bait. With Dicknite's, or another urethane, it is much easier to apply a uniform thickness and have it dry that way. Try carving your first cup-faced popper and clearing it with epoxy. Nigh on impossible to cover the sharp cup edge---and we know what happens when water gets under epoxy.
But Gunnie, to tell David and many others who have switched from 2-ton to Dicknite's topcoat, many of whom were here and gone long before you joined, that our observations are wrong, that what I've seen with my own eyes as a longtime diehard fisherman (and at least one Elite Series Pro) in the last three years is incorrect, I find almost funny, and fairly rude. Your opinion is your opinion, and you can find suppporters, for sure, but if it was a stone cold fact, everyone would use 2-ton. We ain't stupid, and you're saying we either are, or are wrong or both. My experience tells me that Dicknite's is the best clear coat I can use to make the best lures I can make for my use, and that is my wherefore and why.
Posted 11 October 2009 - 05:52 PM
Well said Dean Last night I was writing the same type of post but could not find a nice way of saying what you just did. This I thought was a learning board and it is good to use differant products. If it was that simple no one would have to post anything.
Posted 12 October 2009 - 02:36 AM
I dont' have the experience of Dean, but In my opinion, Dick Nite's blows epoxy away in quality of finish. I said the storeage was a pain.........might have come off wrong. I didn't really have problems storing it, only lost a few ounces out of a few pints, but having to be so careful was a little tough for me sometimes.....that said I still switched to a two part auto clear, because of the ease ofuse and storage. IMO, they blow away anything else I've tried. The mixing and ventilation are probably a problem for a lot of people, but it's fine for me, and for me they gave the best quality finishes.
But to say Devcon is absolutely the best clear for all lures is just crazy. Ever topcoated a rattletrap with devcon? Finish probably came off within the first 10 casts if you did.
Edited by clamboni, 12 October 2009 - 02:38 AM.
Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:40 AM
I believe the question was in reference to the "glossy finish" 2-ton vs. DN. Do I think 2-ton is the best for every bait in every situation, absolutely not, and I never said that nor did I mean to imply it was. But it is the best regarding the deep glossy finish. Its my fault the statement was taken out of context, but I still stand by what I said.
Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:54 AM
Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:36 AM
I'm thinking after all that I have read on the subject that as much as we would like a "magic bullet" for this step in our lure making there is currently no "magic bullet" that covers ease of use, durability, great finish, etc.
But now I see that there is no one topcoat for every need or lure. Some will be the best for one situation and not in a different situation.
I do know that knowledge (no matter the subject) comes from experience ... whether that be personal or from others. If you are willing to listen to the experience of others and sift through it.
I plan on ordering some DN and continue to use D2T and like everyone else look for that "magic bullet"
Posted 12 October 2009 - 12:08 PM
I've used D2T in the past, and changed to Etex, and then to NuLustre 55, because of both the yellowing and flaking off issues with D2T, which is very hard, because it is a glue.
I haven't tried DN. I considered it, after reading about it here.
Frankly, I was put off with the storage issues, and the finicky nature of how you had to be so careful when dipping not to let it drip back into the original container, or it would contaminate it, and cause problems.
Another site member tipped me off to another water borne, water cured urethane that has none of the storage issues. He's used it for his baits, which he sells successfully, for some time, and hasn't had any problems.
It's called SC 9000, byTarget Coatings.
They make a high gloss, a semi gloss, a satin, and a flat.
I've used both the high gloss and the flat, and had no problems with either storage, finish clarity, or durability. I actually left a can open overnight once, and it hadn't skinned over at all the next morning.
I make jointed swimbaits out of PVC decking, which is very hard, and totally waterproof, so I am a little more cavalier about my top coat now. Water intusion into the lure is no longer an issue, and a hard, waterproof body relieves the top coat of lure protection duties from toothy critters. If they can dent the lure, I'm not sure I want to lip them, anyway.
But I do like to do a nice paint job, and have it last, and the SC 9000 protects the paint scheme very well.
I recommended SC 9000 to another site member who makes jointed lures for the salt water, and he has reported back it holds up fine for the salt, where fish have real teeth.
I usually dip my lures at least twice, and most often three time, with 2 hour drying time between coats, and 72-90 hour cure time before it reaches maximum strength.
If I'm making a lure for me, 24 hours is plenty of curing time, but anything I make to sell cures at least 72 hours.
Please feel free to PM me if you want more info.
Edited by mark poulson, 12 October 2009 - 12:11 PM.
Posted 13 October 2009 - 10:15 AM
2--Ton may indeed have more actual gloss or shine on its own, simply because it isn't as clear as DN. It does not have the literal water-clarity that Dicknite's has.
And you said there are many, many, 2-part moisture clear urethanes that are as good as Dicknite's.
That sounds like a lot of products with which you've had extensive experience. If you'd like to share, we're always ready to learn.
Posted 13 October 2009 - 06:18 PM
It is good to see the discussion on clearcoats is still alive and well on TU. For those that are fairly new to this site, this topic is nothing new and has been around forever. Everyone has their own favorite, me included.
I like Etex, Devcon and to a lesser degree DN. I think Etex and Devcon are a much better suited clearcoat if you are building lures for toothy creatures because they go on so much thicker. DN is hard once fully cured but so is Etex or Devcon......they are all hard as a rock. Devcon will yellow some with time but I find it a bit easier to work with than Etex. I think DN is better suited for small lures and lures in which the action may be negatively affected by a heavy clear coat. The storage of DN is a major hassle and I find the odor to be offensive.
Bottom line, for convenience and general use I think Devcon is hard to beat. For production use and particulary if you are building musky or pike lures then Etex is hard to beat........great coating and cheaper when buying in bulk. If you are building bass lures or have a lure that may be affected by a thick clear coat then DN may be the best for you.
Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:51 PM
No, really, for me it's not that bad. Little bit of a pain having to be so careful with it, but I think the best way to describe it is to try to eliminate it being exposed to new air. I didn't ever pour it out of the can, and I think that was the key.I used syringes to draw it out and disturb it as little as possible. Then when i was done I put the lid on tightly and immediately. Then gently put the can down where it won't get knocked over. I also was careful not to get any on the lid that wasn't there when the can got to my house. I figured that any of it that could get on the lid could come into contact with some that's partially cured and contaminate the whole can..........worked for me, but I moved on to the two part urethane. No storage issues, mixing can be tough at times, but it's easier to spray and lays on like glass. Don't think it's quite as tough, but it's easier to get the look you want, and I think it's plenty tough.