Devcon 2T and Dicks Nite pics ?
36 replies to this topic
Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:28 AM
Listen to Mark on this one. I've tried them all and nothing is easier than the Target Coatings, and it looks GREAT. (I think it's on sale right now too). Thanks again to Mark and the others who brought this stuff to my attention.
Posted 16 October 2009 - 07:26 PM
The Target Coatings products seems like the real deal. I have recently started experimenting with them and so far am satisified. Haven't put them to the torture test yet so am not fully endorsing the products yet.
For sure they are a lot easier to use than any epoxy I have tried and for the one's I have used storage doesn't seem to be an issue. They are also waterborne and have little if any odor.They appear to be similar to Evirotex after curing. I have fished with baits cured for one day and also have let some baits cure for a week and both appear to have held up reasonably well.
I did learn one thing very quickly about these products though, DON'T STIR OR SHAKE THEM, this causes bubbles which ends up on your baits and have to be fine sanded out and re-coated.
I know a lot of different clear coats are out there and most have their advantages and dis-advantages but these Target Coatings products might solve a lot of our clear coat issues and are for sure worth experimenting with.
Thanks Mark for sharing this product with us.
Edited by baitmaker2, 16 October 2009 - 07:28 PM.
Posted 16 October 2009 - 09:13 PM
For those using the Target Coatings product, how does it compare to Seal Coat by UC Coatings?
Posted 17 October 2009 - 03:34 PM
To answer the question specifically, one coat of Devcon is plenty for any bass bait. It makes a thick topcoat. for DN, I've lately been using a single dip with good results. If you spray or brush it, you will probably want 2-4 coats. In my observation,either provides a nice protective clear coat. The DN is more like the factory polyurethane finish on many store bought baits and it has slightly more gloss and is slicker to the touch than Devcon. But the thicker, silky looking finish of Devcon has its own attraction too.
BTW, I have some Target 9300 and am waiting for some TUers to torture test it and let us know if it's worth of a "Four Star Rating"! I just can't seem to believe a water based poly will work well.
Edited by BobP, 17 October 2009 - 03:40 PM.
Posted 18 October 2009 - 11:21 AM
Bob, I hear you about wondering how tough a water-borne poly might be---from what everyone is saying, I have no doubt it is tougher than Minwax Polycrylic (nearly everything is)---but even if it is a little better than the Component Systems' clear coat, I'd feel I was taking a big step backwards in durability compared to Dicknite's topcoat, and I won't accept that, even if it smells like roses and self-applies. Both David Sullivan and I feel that DN is extremely user-friendly, in all aspects, and neither of us have found anything that maintains the appearance and integrity of a lure nearly as well. You can debate which clearcoats are the shiniest etc, until the cows come home, but I have no doubt at all that a crankbait cleared in DN will look much better than the competition after 2 weeks of use in snag-infested waters, nor do those who fish my baits hard, including my most frequent fishing companion, Larry, who has fished more custom bass lures of all kinds than probably anybody in the country.
If the 9300, or 9000 Target coatings are more durable than DN in all aspects, then I will switch, but I have the feeling that it will not be so. For those who find it good enough, more power to you, and I will be glad to have another product out there that is less demanding of time and effort to advise newcomers to use to simplify the process of lure building, or at least make it less overwhelming. And if someone's lure building priorities are simply not the same as mine, I completely understand, that not everyone wants to spend as much time, effort, or money on each lure as I do. Different strokes and all that.
But if we're talking The Best Clearcoat then based on the observations of someone like me whose life has revolved around fishing and the fishing business for 45 of my 56 years, Dicknite's Topcoat is currently the first name in the conversation. That is always subject to change, but probably won't today.
Posted 18 October 2009 - 05:34 PM
Please expand on why it's unsuitable. TIA
Posted 18 October 2009 - 06:00 PM
That's why I asked how it compares to the UC Seal Coat which is also a water-based coating. I tried the Seal Coat, still have a gallon of it left and it is no where near tough enough, not even close.
Posted 18 October 2009 - 06:00 PM
Here's what whittler said about target topcoats:
If it only took three small bass to do that kind of damage to that lure, I would not want target topcoats anywhere near my lures.
Hope this helps.
Posted 18 October 2009 - 06:31 PM
I've seen that happen with epoxy TC's too. The TC usually doesn't cause the paint to lift when it fails, but peels off first then ther paint takes it's turn. How long did the paint set and was the paint compatible with a Water Based TC?
Posted 18 October 2009 - 07:00 PM
Well, from the bassresource.com post, IMO it was fairly done and he put time and effort into it. From the pic included, the Target poly eventually took on water, as did the acrylic paint under it, and it all delaminated from the lure. The only ?? I have is the lure was allowed to soak for days. In real world use, crankbaits are immersed repeatedly but for short periods as they are fished, taken out of the water to be re-cast, and then sit on deck while running to another spot, etc. Would that make a difference? I don't know!
At least one builder here on TU uses Target 9000 on swimbaits and reports no complaints from customers. We need to be very specific about finishes. How they are applied, on top of which intermediate coatings, cure times, and how they are fished, all may be important in understanding how they last or why they fail.
I have some 9300 in the garage. I used it to topcoat a wooden sign painted with acrylics in my auntie's yard, to get a rough idea of how it holds up. I'm gonna HAVE to use it on some crankbaits to see for myself how it does eventually.
Posted 18 October 2009 - 10:47 PM
To answer your question Bob, 3 days is the longest I soaked any test blocks and the baits pictured were never in the water until the day they were fished. The baits used had been finished 3 weeks prior to use.
On the test blocks after 3 days in the water you could rub the finish off with your finger.
I did a similar post on Surftalk, because there were several posts about the Target coatings and how fantastic they were, and I asked the simple question " what am I doing wrong". After 2 days there were no responses. Easy to apply, completely agree nothing is more trouble free to use, but I would not sign my name to any bait using it.
Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:27 AM
I have used both the DN and the Target. In a real world test I did 3 dips with the target coating and let it cure for 5 days, took the lure to the lake and the clear lasted about 30 minutes before it started to peel. I normally do 2 or 3 dips with DN and let it cure for 5 days and fish the lures and can hardly tell they have been fished it is much much stronger than the target.
Posted 19 October 2009 - 10:17 AM
Thanks guys! Your tests showed me that I won't have to waste the time trying it.
Posted 19 October 2009 - 10:58 AM
I haven't had any peeling experiences with the SC 9000. I use it over Createx and Wildlife water based paints, and also over rattle can paints, like spray on Krylon Glitter.
But I've never immersed one of my lures in water for any length of time. I've fished them all day, and never had a problem.
I used to have problems when I used epoxy over wood lures. Water always seemed to find it's way in, eventually, and start the top coat and paint scheme lifting.
I never had that problem with plastic bait repaints, either.
I'm wondering if the issue is water penetration.
I have only used SC 9000 on one wooden bait, a one piece glider, made from Paulowinia (thanks Gene) that I soaked in Minwax Wood Hardener first, before I primed it. I wet sanded the primer, after each of the two coats I gave it.
So far, no problems, even after a few stripers.
But I wouldn't use wood if I were making musky lures. It's too soft, no matter what I've tried to make it harder.
I really think PVC is the key, because it's totally water proof, so the performance of the top coat isn't critical in terms of keeping water out.
I have to share a funny story.
Talk about making things more complicated than they need to be......
Last winter, when we arrived at the lake I wanted to fish, it was blown out, and the lifeguards wouldn't let us launch our boat.
So my buddy and I walked the dam, throwing swimbaits.
He was throwing one of the first surface gliders I had ever made, which was four years old. It was made out of old douglas fir, salvaged from a jobsite, and painted and sealed totally with rattle can paints, over a Minwax Polyacrylic sealer.
He hung the lure on a buoy rope on a long cast, and had to break it off. It was frustrating, seeing it floating there on the rope, and not being able to go get it.
The next week we went back to the lake, launched, and, with the lifeguard's permission, went into the buoyed area looking for the lure.
We found it, cut the trebles to get it free, and saved it.
When we checked it out later that day, the finish was perfect, even after being in the lake a week.
It's back in service.
So old, oil-based paints are really great, too.
I have been making some 4" four piece swimbaits and one piece walking baits out of PVC, and painting them totally with rattle cans.
I love that I can do the priming and painting completely in one day, and fish it the next day if I want to.
I've found that, if I let the white primer dry for two hours, I can spray on the simple, silver or white base coat, and then, within 15 minutes, spray on a shoulder and back layer, and it bonds into the base coat, and dries hard.I originally left the top coat off because I didn't want to lose the shiny silver finish from the spray on aluminum paint.
I actually did a crackle finish by mistake, when I used gloss white for the basecoat, and then sprayed a light black on the back and shoulders almost immediately. The black crackled, exposing the white, but it still dried hard. Dumb luck.
For someone like me, who likes immediate gratification, it's ideal.
And I can test new lures and basic paint schemes so much faster, and then duplicate them with a more complicated paint scheme, covered by SC 9000, for production.
Edited by mark poulson, 19 October 2009 - 11:08 AM.
Posted 21 October 2009 - 12:50 AM
I'm wanting to try DN also. How long does it really take to dry? and are you better off to dip your lure or brush on DN?
Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:36 AM
Jlester, The solvent in DN flashes off after application and it dries to the touch in a couple of hours. But the real deal is that it begins to cure when exposed to humidity in the air and slowly becomes harder and tougher. How long? It probably varies according to heat/humidity levels but I let mine cure for a few days before fishing them. A week is probably optimum. Application - you can dip, brush or spray it. I get good results from a single dip on bass baits and figure it gets the max possible DN on the lure in one operation. Others brush it on in several coats. Some thin it and shoot it in an airbrush. One thing I've discovered with dipping, it's best just to simply hang the bait up to dry/cure versus putting it on a lure rotator. So for me, dipping is a nice "5 second finish" - dip it, hang it, done. Check out the numerous posts about handling and storing DN before you start. It is sensitive to humidity contamination during storage and application and requires "special handling".