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Extex Pulling Away...
15 replies to this topic
Posted 04 November 2009 - 11:46 PM
I handled the lure without gloves or by the bill before applying the Etex. It will prolly happen, the pulling away because of the oil on the skin. What could I have done after I handled the bait? A water based coating of some sort? Then Etex? Will be careful after this...just started getting back of the horse....
Posted 05 November 2009 - 12:12 AM
If you touched the paint it is pretty hard to do anything about it other than washing off the paint and starting over again. If you put on a coat of etex and it fish-eyed on you, let it dry, wipe it clean with a paper towel and rubbing alcohol, and coat again.
Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:31 AM
I had more than my fair share of your problems initially with my etex coatings. I now wipe down the lure prior to coating with alcohol. I make sure I wear latex gloves and grab the lure by the hook hanger rings with a pair of forceps and gently wipe the paint with cotton wool soaked in alcohol (pure). When applying the etex I also really apply pressure with the brush to ensure the paint surface is really well soaked with epoxy. This procedure cured my problems with pulling away of the coating, hope it cures yours
P.S. sharp edges to a lure are the worst culprits for this so sanding down the sharp edge could assist. There is lots of info from previous postings on this board.
Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:53 AM
Finlander—I second all of the above, if these two guys can't solve this, nobody can--
From my experience with a dozen epoxies, when finishing urethanes and water based paints (acrylics) you have to seal them before you top coat, don't know why but suspect it has something to do with the retarders/ surfactants in these paints, or minute air bubbles rising from the surface of the wood, which may not have been sealed adequately, OR both.
I don't bother second guessing epoxies any more and just seal the paint anyway, not matter what media - I painted 3 today with combinations of w/b acrylic, alcohol based acrylic and a thinner based clear colour, then sealed them with a alcohol based sealer – the thinners based clear colour would probably have done the job but it's not worth the risk.
Just seal it with something, Artists Pastel sealer is good, so is clear shellac, and like RM and Phil say, don't touch it, wear some latex gloves and if it's really bad a condom--
ALSO see “Fatfingers' posts about Etex-Lite and how to apply, he's another master at finishing a lure. pete
Posted 05 November 2009 - 10:18 AM
As soon as I realized that I had been handling the lure barehanded....I started thinking how I could save this job. I knew wiping it down was the answer but then I would strip the paint off. I have wiped down Etex before, before another coat. I was after wether a waterbased sealer would work. Guess it would after all the paints are water after we thin them. Oh well, live and learn. Going to the basement now to see the Etex disaster.
Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:53 PM
I've had success spraying a Krylon rattlecan clear coat before I Etex, to kind of even out the surface, and cover any oils or dirt.
Posted 05 November 2009 - 03:37 PM
Interesting comment re the Krylon clear coat, I recently experimented with 2 part car lacquer (2K clear coat) with tremendous results. The finish is so good an epoxy is hardly required however the clear coat is no where near as hard as epoxy and will only be good enough for toothless predators so for pike and musky epoxy is still required. Because the 2K cures in around 30 minutes the epoxy can be applied very soon afterward and behaves itself very well. I cannot really say as yet whether this is the way forward as I have only done a couple of 2K+epoxy combo's but it is looking promising.
Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:42 PM
You could always spray on a coat of clear as Mark suggested, clear Rustoleum lacquer would work but I never liked to do this because lacquers will yellow faster than the etex.
Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:42 PM
Unbelievably, the coating isn't bad, no bare spots as I have seen in the past, like during my rookie year. I just need to sand a couple of rough areas and wipe it down before one more final coat. It was dry this am when I went down to check on it. 12 hours after applying. I did torch it to release bubbles, maybe too much heat as it dripped off the bait for a bit. Thanks everyone for the tips. Bruce
Posted 06 November 2009 - 11:18 AM
Good to hear things are beginning to come together. One further thing I have found to my cost in the past is the problem applying heat to a wooden bait coated with epoxy, the wood is naturally cellular and you can never get rid of the air within the wood itself. As you apply heat the air expands and exits the wood. This is the primary cause of the fish eye effect that curses epoxy coatings. Much better to just leave at room temperature and allow to cure without temperature fluctuations. It is essential to make sure the bait is at room temperature before coating otherwise when heat is applied that air WILL escape. Only apply heat very sparingly, I only use heat from a small hairdryer to lower the viscosity of the epoxy towards the end of the curing process which gives it that mega glass smooth finish and it is only applied in couple of seconds flashing so as not to heat the wood itself but only the coating. I have never had any problems with air trapped in the epoxy itself.
Posted 06 November 2009 - 03:57 PM
Do you think, in a cold weather situation, heating the lure blank before you coat it with Etex would help?
Posted 06 November 2009 - 07:35 PM
I know I'm too late to be of any help, but for future reference, before wiping to clean off oils, etc. you stand a better chance if you've heat set the acrylic, thus increasing it's durabilty to a solvent some. Of course the follow as above, including letting it cool back down to room temp.
Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:41 PM
I did heat the epoxy to get rid of the bubbles. On both coats. I have a bait now that I have put foil on both sides, and will Etex it before painting. I did not know this about the wood. Some people just exhale on their baits to release the bubbles of the Etex. I have never gotten a glassy smooth fininsh on any baits. Not selling them anyhow, but maybe someday I'd like to. It needs to be smooth though. Should I stir Etex longer, trying now to add bubbles/air into the mix? How long will the Etex create its' own bubbles? Should I watch it longer before putting it on the tumbler? In the past I use a propane torch after it was tumbling, heating both sides, nose and tail as best I could. Bruce
Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:47 AM
I am sure I have seen postings with reference to heating wooden baits before applying epoxy coats. I do not heat baits prior to coating, I have never had to, but looking in a very logical way it would seem to follow that you would be better applying coatings to a bait that is cooling rather than heating up, its the same as contracting rather than expanding isn't it, you are unlikley to get air release from a cooling bait.
Posted 08 November 2009 - 04:14 AM
It is carbon dioxide that releases the air from epoxy coatings. Heat only assists in the process by lowering the viscosity of the epoxy, that is why breathing on a lure releases air bubbles. I cant understand why you should not have got a glassy finish as these finishes are attainable with etex. A good way I have found of de gassing after application is, this is not rocket science and really basic stuff, grab the bill or hook ring with some long nose pliers, carry it into the house/kitchen, light the gas ring on the cooker and hold the lure 4' above the gas ring for a couple of seconds (maybe 3 or 4) either side, the carbon dioxide produced by the flame will de_gas and the heat will let it smooth, take it back and mount in the turner. I don't know if this is a 'tip' but what I do to get a super glassy finish is wait until the cure is well advanced and the coat is really thick and very sticky, sticky enough so as if you touched a brush to the lure it will stick to it and hang there, I then flash it with a hair dryer whilst on the turner, this softens the epoxy and lets it level out for a final time and gets rid of those tiny flaws. I am not talking massive amounts of heat here only a few seconds of gentle heat to soften that etex and let it run/level.
There are better brains as regards the technical physics of epoxy coatings subscribing the the TU forums and this is only what I have found from actually doing it
Posted 08 November 2009 - 09:14 AM
Thanks for the help. The first time I had the flame too close. Now i have it far enough away and have it on low. I used to be able to see the epoxy burp as I breathed on it, releasing the bubbles. Now I just propane it on the tumbler. That is the first time I've read anything of tweaking it later on when the epoxy is tacky. Thanks! Okay, we can let this post die a quiet death now.