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Making Swimbaits From Resin...help!
66 replies to this topic
Posted 09 November 2009 - 02:49 PM
I am thinking about making a 2 part Silicone mold of a swimbait I created. I want to then cast resin in it to reproduce the bait. There are a bunch of products out there and feedback is greatly appreciated. I have heard good things about Featherlight and Alumilite. I like the idea of Featherlite and not mixing in Micro ballons. I have heard that resin's, Featherlite and alumilite, are not that durable. So here are some of my questions;
1. Has anyone made swimbaits with any type of resin that they can comment on?
2. If your throwing a heavy swimbait out there is it gonna crack or break from the abuse?
3. I heard some people use Bondo... anyone have experience with that?
4. I know JSJ swimbaits are resin but anyone know what kind?
5. Is there another product you guys could reccomend?
6. Is there a Cheaper product that I could experiment with from like Home Depot or Lowes?
Your help is always appreciated. And I did do research but its always good to get a fresh outlook on things. Thanks again!
Posted 09 November 2009 - 04:54 PM
I played around with polyester (fibreglass) resin for a while. Cheap and readily available, cast well and with micro balloons, I could achieve a density of around 0.7 or 70% of water. The cranks swam OK, but just did not have the action of a light wood that I was looking for. It is a different matter for swimbaits, heavier materials work quite well, allowing more space for hardware. If I was to cast some swimbaits for myself, I would not hesitate to use this material, as I cannot get all the other reccommendations locally.
The down side is that it is brittle. I dropped a blank onto my tiled floor and it snapped. I guess it just landed wrong, on its nose and snapped along the lip slot. I dropped a couple from my second storey balcony onto a concrete tiled path. They survived with just a few small chips. If you cast into a pile of jagged rocks, you could be unlucky, depending how it lands. So I would not sell lures from this material.
It was easy to work with, drilled nice and clean, with no binding or chipping. Sands well and had no paint adhesion problems with a base coat of rustoleum. Polyester resin is not famous for being waterproof, read a few boat building sites for information on this. I don't fish enough to test this out for a fact, but as BobP says, it is really all about the top coat for sealing.
It can stick to the RTV mold if you forget to apply release agent, which I frequently did, until I put a big sign on the wall in my pouring area. The release agent I used was a dry spray. Don't know the make, as it was re-labelled by the shop. I guess the usual agents would work just fine.
Health wise, remove all traces from your skin with a suitable solvent, then scrub your hands. I got a rash on my face, which took a couple of weeks to clear up, I was careless. Latex gloves are definately reccommended. It doesn't smell too healthy either, so a ventilated area would be a good idea too. So, in answer to No6 on your list, this is a good material to experiment with.
Posted 09 November 2009 - 05:22 PM
I am in the same boat. I have been trying to do as much research as possible over the past few days. I have been looking at AeroMarine (jgreer.com) and Dascar (dascarplastics.com) resins and both seem very similar. The gentleman at Jgreer told me they test their resin by molding into ice cube size blocks and bang on them with a hammer against the concrete and see no damage.
Would love to hear some feedback as well as I know only what I have read here about molding baits and the materials. The more information the better as it will help in my final decision on product and hopefully make the learning curve a little easier. I hope to purchase material by the middle of the week.
Posted 09 November 2009 - 06:35 PM
I thought I posted this already, but here goes.
Google DASCAR RP-40 ($69 for a 2 gal kit and is great stuff) on Ebay and Order MB's from Shopmaninc.com( Get the large size as handlong is $10, eitehr way).
Posted 09 November 2009 - 08:25 PM
If you look at the specs.... it seems like this stuff (Dascar) is the same as Alumilite at half the cost.... thanks for the heads up!!
Posted 10 November 2009 - 02:13 AM
I am now in the process of making swim baits with two products. One is from tap plastics and the other is Alumilite. They are about the same product as far as casting goes. The one from tap is local. I have alot of these baits out there for some on the water R&D and have had no one complaint about breakage or even paint problems for that matter.
Here is my take on the mold process. It sound easy to say I am going to make a mold and cast a swim bait,But that is because you have not done it yet. When you make a mold it is very important to understand how you will go about it. Like you I was going to make a two part mold, all three pieces in one mold. Boy was that a mistake it came out so bad it is not good enough to be a paper weight( more embarasing than anything else). But I did learn that if I was going to make a mold it would be a one piece. Now all my molds are one piece. Less clean up of the parting lines. Use the firmest rtv silicone you can get away with and try not to stir air in the rtv so you dont get bubbles in the mold. I use a vacunm to remove what I put in now.
As for the resins it is nice to have a thin 2-3 minute pot life one. I use a scale to measure the portion and when I add microballoons I add them to the thin product while it is on the scale. Most of mine are made with 10% mb by weight which work for me. Then I add a split shot to the belly of the mold to keep it running true. Plastic cups are the ones I use for mixing,I use two one with the thin part with the mb then one for other part. I pore the thin one into the thicker one and stir with a FLAT stick to prevent putting small air pockets into the mix(champain bubbles if you think about it). Open the mold and pour in to the point of over flowing then release slowly to let as many bubbles out as you can. Wait longer than you think and then remove the part. Sand the parting lines and pore spouts install hard where and paint.
As for bondo it is not a good product for this as it is to soft and pourius. All it is is polyester resin and mb. No strenght there.
I have not seen other products like this at any store other than tap plastics. This stuff is pretty special not your every day resins.
When you go and pull the trigger on this I would put most of my work in the molds because remember if you rush your molds all the imperfections will be in every part you cast untill you make a new one. My blue gill head is on the fourth one but it is real good now.The tail is on the third one and i will redo tommorrow. But alot of rtv also it may seem to be alot but it goes fast.
Just my 2cts on the subject. And yes it is fresh on my mind. Hope this helps
Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:28 AM
I don't think you can just say featherlite or allumilite. Both companies offer a variety of composites that have very different properties. Some float, some sink, some soft, some harder than concrete, just depends on what your trying to accomplish. I don't have a ton of experience, but I do make a few baits out of this material. The same can be said for RTV. Some RTV is more dense or flexible than others, it all depends on the shape and detail of the bait. I would suggest buying the Larry Dalberg DVD, its pretty good and he covers a variety of RTV and resin materials.
Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:11 PM
Larrys dvd only has products from Alumilite as he is good friends of the VP at that Co. I would like to try them all and really see the differance for myself. The differance that stands out to me is the tinsle strength in psi, they are all over the place, if that is even important.
Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:16 PM
It is still a good tutorial on molds and covers the differences between resins and RTV.
Posted 11 November 2009 - 01:14 AM
Yes it is but my point is that it only covers one companys products not Huskys Not Kelpkritters not my one from tap or any other ones. Let me put it this way why does the price vary so much if it is the same product. Are the spec sheets a good way to compare. Tomorrow I will call someone from one of the companys and see what they say.
You can watch this a hundred times and it is still hard to make a mold that is free of imperfections cause he does not get that detailed in this part.
Husky have you used any other resin that you care to share with us?
Also nice link it has alot of info Thank You
Edited by Frank, 11 November 2009 - 01:19 AM.
Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:40 AM
I also used the Resin from Shopmaninc,com I liked it a lot but it's priced $30 higher than the $69 I pay for the RP-40, The only difference I see between the 2 is a slight color variation, the RP-40 being an off white.
I can't speak for the Alumilite brand but I know of guys who have. I won't post what they said as it would be hearsay,
Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:08 AM
Talked to two different co. about the large price differences in the resins. One that only sells the high end resins said they use 100% resins no fillers to reduce the quality. This co. has a following that demands top guality only and that is why they do not put any fillers to lower the cost. The second co. makes both high and low end resins. He said the same thing that there is fillers that you can use to cut the cost of manufacturing thus it get you to the price point that helps you keep up with others in the same range. Again it is price point that drives this not the product quailty. Yes the cheaper resins might work for some but if you look at the cost of the resin in a 5" swim bait the differance is in cents not dollars. I go through alot of work on my baits and dont mind paying a few cents more for the highest quality resin available. I have always said that you get what you pay for.
For some info on what I do for a living I work at a auto body shop and work with the best products I can get my hands on cause it just cost to much to redo because of poor quailty products. We also have a life time warranty on all our repairs. I cost well in excess of a thousand dollars to refinish a car you dont want to do it again.
That said I still would like to try any resin I can get just to see the differences in the products.
Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:48 AM
I'm currently using aero marine products and adding microballoons. I like it way better than featherlite (which junk in my own opinion). I'm still messing around with getting the microballon:resin ratio right. I will say that its still not as good as I'd like it to be. All resin that I've used so far have been hard but very brittle (especially the featherlight). If only someone could figure out how to liquefy pvc decking material and put it in a cool squeezy ketchup style bottle. Of course, lure making was never meant to be easy.
One thing I will point out from my guess and test, my baits seem to have better action using more balloons and counteracting with more weight. For some reason, having a more dense lure and little weight seems to require more work to swim in comparison to a bait with less density and more weight. I'm also testing this with swimbaits. It may be a different story on a one piece crank.
Posted 12 November 2009 - 09:54 AM
According to the Folks at Dascar, their RP-40 is used by the Auto industry for tooling up parts. My experience has found it, as well as the Shopmaninc.com product to be very strong, and that's considering I made some lures with a 50/50 mix of UR amd MB's.
For my FoTins I use artist sand in lieu of MB's to make the lures heavier, and they seem to be bullet proof as well.
Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:12 PM
Same thing here Amac make it float good then sink with weight in the belly. Swims much better this way. Thought about casting an air pocket in the top but I need this area for hardware.
Husky I still want to try your resin and am looking forward to it. When I add 50% mb it seems to weaken the resin to much for me but I have not had an eye pull out yet. I really dont know how much but it is sure way easier to drill.
Posted 12 November 2009 - 06:29 PM
The tempature you cast your baits has alot to do with it too! Resin expands more in hot humidity days in the summer and a whole lot less in the winter. I feel the best time to cast your parts is at Night or during cool periods in a controlled enviroment..
Posted 12 November 2009 - 06:35 PM
These never pull out!
Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:07 AM
I live in central ca there is not to many humid days to speak of I think we had one the other day it was about 50%. Now that it is cooler it takes alot longer to remove from the mold.
OK Rookie what kind of resins have you used now that I am calling everyone out. By the way I guess you have some what of a following over here. I would like to get ahold of one of your baits for my personal collection.
Husky I only make jointed baits at the time but when I start on the one piece ones it will be wire through like yours. How are your parting lines after casting is there alot of clean up? The reason I ask is my first mold was like that and it was just to time consuming to clean up. But then it was my first and have learned alot since.
One other question have we confused the original posters yet have not heard from them in awhile?
Posted 13 November 2009 - 08:10 AM
The parting lines are very thin and can be "erased" with 220 paper. I cut off any protruding parts and sand what's left. No messy clean up to speak of. I use clear 3 0z cups to mix in. I use a marker to measure out how much resinI need, iow 4/16's" in each cup, I write the formula on the molds. i.e. my large FoTins take 4/16's of each resin and 6/16's of art sand. (I keep the measurements in 16's to remain constant. It also allows me to cast two different lures from the same mix, w/o having to convert fractions.