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Paint Cracks And/or Bubbles After Clear Coating
17 replies to this topic
Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:16 PM
um... if it makes you feel any better the gold one looks pretty cool
First guess to my mind would be that you didn't heat set enough.
Posted 21 November 2009 - 07:36 PM
What was the process you used and what materials did you use?
Posted 21 November 2009 - 08:07 PM
A Mac , U have me laughing.
Ok Guys , I used Auto Air paint, I didnt hit ea. coat with a dyer , just last coat , waited a day , dipped (1) coat with (Dick Nite).
Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:44 PM
The question should be what did you primer it with? That is not the paint it is the undercoat. My guess is that it is some kind of enamel. The reason that it does that is the auto air is pourios and let the solvent get to the undercoat. ANY solvent based top coat has the definate possability to do this. This is why the paint companys have a system that is compatable within itself. When you change the system this is what could happen. If you let the undercoat dry longer this might not have happened. It is colder now and it takes alot longer for things to dry. The wrinkling of the underside is just a reaction to the solvent. Not much you can do but remove and start over. Now why it only happened on some and not all of the baits is not clear to me. There will be people that will say that they have never had this problem with enamel based primers but it does happen. If you used an epoxy top coat without adding anything to it that would not have happened. Try using a primer that is not enamel based at least when using a solvent type clear.
Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:56 PM
It can be either the 'primer' or the paint. Not a lot of us use Auto Air, so I don't know whether that might be a problem. Suggest you check the Auto Air site to see if they have recommendations about topcoats. 68KingFisher probably has a lot of experience with AA, may be able to help - but think he uses an auto clear, not DN. DN has solvents that are quite 'active' and when it gets cold they take longer to flash out. You can judge that if you have used the same primer/paint/DN in warmer weather without problems. Frank is right about epoxy - it never reacts with other coatings in my experience.
Edited by BobP, 21 November 2009 - 11:01 PM.
Posted 21 November 2009 - 11:44 PM
I had this problem alot a few years back. Turned out i was painting my laquer based paint over an enamel based. I just had to remove all paint to eliminate this problem.
Posted 22 November 2009 - 01:18 AM
Epoxys usually dont have solvents in them. That is why they dont die back when dry. Auto air claims they can be cleared with any clear. And water based paints seem to be pretty resistant to solvent so that is not in my opinion the problem. For auto air to claim that they can be cleared by any clear means that it is very pourios and will mechanically bond to your clear. Auto clears do have some solvents also but most now a days they are high solids which means alot less solvents. The hot solvents found in older clears are pretty much gone now. I believe they were used to chemically bond to the base coat. Believe me we are using a far better product now than in years past. Water based or water bourne I mean. Try to use a complete system and this will not happen.
Posted 22 November 2009 - 02:59 AM
From what I see, I think Frank nailed it exactly.....I do use automotive urethane clears instead of DN but I can tell you i'd get much the same reaction just by laying on a really heavy first coat.....Especially over enamel paint or primer.....the solvents just cause bad things to happen.
When it comes to Createx, anytime I used it, whether it be their standard line of colors or AutoAir, I always used a fair amount of heat to cure the paintjob as I went along...theres something that happens on a molecular level that creates a much better bond that doesn't happen without the heat....I use a heavy duty adjustable heatgun instead of a blowdryer, and I've got'r cranked up to bout 6 on the dial that tops out at 10, so i'm usin a fair amount of heat....I don't get real close cause I don't wanna cook it but I want to heat it up real good....get'r really warm.....now if ya get too hot, or heat it too fast you run the risk of boiling the water within the acrylic paint and it'll bubble up on ya, but if you'll blow a fair amount of heat on it....frequently....you'll find you get alot better adhesion overall.
NOTE:.....the advice I just gave has never been used by me on a fishing lure(yet).....so I can't say if heating your wooden baits up that warm would be harmful/problematic or not?...Not to mention the stick on 3D eye's??....I just don't know enough about the lure making craft....I've only used my method on plastic items such as ball helmets or bike fenders and alot of other misc plastic items except lures, but also metal and aluminum. The only problems I ever had was when I was rushing to beat deadlines and got items too hot and caused them to bubble up....as long as I took my time and didn't rush things, I never had adhesion or lifting problems and alot of my work required me to tape over colors multiple times.....if you've got adhesion issues they'll show up when it comes time to pull your tape....trust me on this.
Edited by 68KingFisher, 22 November 2009 - 03:05 AM.
Posted 22 November 2009 - 09:55 AM
What KF says about heating the paint makes sense. On a couple of lures I got them too hot and the body of the bait actually swelled. Didn't notice any bubbling of the paint, but the lure looked like it was gonna have babies.
Posted 22 November 2009 - 12:02 PM
Hmmmmm , Now that my head hurts , laughing.
Thanks everyone for the info.
These are plastic lure bodies.
I have been putting my base coat on extra thick ? Ill spray less.
Ill heat ea. coat, instead of just my last coat.
Ive never had this issue during the summer , it has been COLD here , I dont know if this had played a part?
When I am painting , I use the same brand of paint & base coat.
Edited by MikePaintsBaits, 22 November 2009 - 12:04 PM.
Posted 22 November 2009 - 08:31 PM
You didnt heat set your paint enough when you used your DN clear coat. Take a hair dryer to it and dry it like crazy.. then let it sit for 24 to 48 hours before you clear coat it. If you want the best guy to ask about DN on TU PM! DEAN MCCLAIN..
Its not your primer or your paint.
Posted 23 November 2009 - 01:08 AM
If you don't heat set good with DN it will peel the paint off for sure. As Rayburn said, don't heat them up too much or you will cause the glue to become soft and split or deform the lure. I've found you can heat set a re-paint a little longer than a cheap lure blank. I suppose it has something to do with the factory top coat. I always heat set after the lure is finished and never had a problem. I personally think you run a higher risk of deforming the lure if heat is applied after every color.
Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:23 PM
Well you had me until you said that you put a heavy base coat.That is the worse thing you can do with any paint system. With water based paint there should NEVER be heavy coats. Light to medium coats is all you should need. As for heat setting I have yet to find on the auto air site the NEED for this. It needs to be DRY to top coat. Heat with air helps speed up the process. And yes the temperature has alot to do with reactions that never happened before. If you read some of the tech pages on any paint co material they always have an ideal temp to use there pruduct. The hotter it is the faster it will work, the colder it is the slower it works and usually X2. If you did not put any kind of sealer on the bait then it is probably the heavy coat is not dry all the way. When you go to repaint it sand it to see where the failure really is and post so we can add it to the memory banks.
Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:44 AM
Fabric paints, like Createx, need to be heat set to make the molecules "crosslink" and become water proof.
I've actually added Createx accents after I topcoated a lure, heat set it, and then fished it, and the paint didn't wash off.
I use a two speed hair dryer, drying each coat on low for a minute, and then switching to high for a minute to "set" the paint. Just don't hold the lure too close to the dryer, so it heats evenly.
I use SC9000 waterborne urethane as a top coat, and can dip my lures immediately after the last coat of paint is heat set.
I have had the wrinkling, like in the picture, but that was when I dipped into my top coat for the second coat without waiting a full two hours. Kind of a neat effect.
I hit the lures with the hair dryer between dips now, just to be sure.
I prime with either Krylon or another rattle can white primer, wet sand after two coats and wait 24 hrs. before I start my paint job. Rattle can primer needs time to offgas all the solvent. Hitting it with a hair dryer can speed that process, too, after it's wet sanded.
Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:25 PM
I do understand that createx has to be heat set but he said he was using auto air. This is the same co. but not the same product. And there site says that heat withair will speed up the process of drying. It does not say it needs to be heated it just need to be dry. As for your clear that kind of product is great cause it is in the same family as far as water is concerned. Never had an issue with some product lines but when you mix them it could be a problem if not done in the right way. And that way is up to you. What ever works for you may not work for the guy with 90% humidity. Ive been in temp controled booths for many years now and we keep the temp ideal all the time so these problems are a thing of the past at least for me. We are using water bourne base coats now all the time.