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"best" Paints And Clear Coats
20 replies to this topic
Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:06 PM
I have noticed on Ebay that a lot of the guys claim to use the "best" paints and clear/gel coats. What do you think they are using? I have always used createx and devcon. Recently I have had trouble finding Devcon 2ton locally so I was thinking about trying something else. What is everybodies opinion on what is the best? What are they calling a gel coat?
Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:15 PM
Hey Basser , A can of worms will be open on this one " LOL" My little 2-cents , I'll only add one thing & let the pro's of TU chime in. I have purchase more than a few baits from ebay , some of which the seller claimed the bait would hold up better than the next persons bait, that to me isn't a very true statement. In the long run , what ever works best for you & that your happy with it.
I use auto air & createx paints & dick nite clear & swear by them , the next guy will say different.
Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:26 PM
Well you sure have started out with a loaded question, as "The Best" clearcoat is thus far, a never-ending debate. I've used several epoxies including Devcon 2-T, and Envirotex Lite, and the best performing clearcoat, the one which is the clearest and protects my crankbaits and topwater lures the best by far is Dicknite's Clear Topcoat, which is a one-part, solvent-catalyzed, humidity-cured, urethane clear. If you asked my most frequent fishing partner, Larry this question, he would answer, "Whatever Dean uses", as he is not a builder, but has been throwing my baits into heavy cover for several years now, and sometimes doesn't hit the water first. I sometimes test my baits for high speed impact resistance on his XP-150 cowl, do a cursory inspection, and continue fishing.
All the Dicknite topcoat users I know, feel that they're using a topcoat that is far superior to any epoxy. Guys who use nothing but epoxies usually feel that they're using the best topcoat.
Some builders who get used to using epoxies feel that Dicknite's topcoat is difficult to use. I feel that it is the easiest topcoat to use, and will agree that it must be stored in a manner to keep it from curing once it is opened. Also,Createx, Parma or other RTU airbrush fabric paints must be thoroughly heat-set before Dicknite's is applied. I use a hair dryer, and don't have a problemwith this, but again, some builders find this difficult
A "gel" coat on most lures I've seen is simply a buzzword for a resin-type finish such as an epoxy clearcoat: it may have a little flake mixed in, as would the gel coat popular on many bass boats, giving it a "bass boat finish".
Posted 17 December 2009 - 04:32 PM
I can't wait to see this post come Monday. LOL!!!
What you use and like will be different from others. I spray lacquer paints and use D2T for the top coat. IS this the best? Maybe not but it is what I am used to and know how to use. I used to use an automotive clear coat for the top coat. It worked very well but you had to spray 4 to 5 coats on it to get the depth that you see on most custom baits. Some guys don’t like lacquer because of the fumes. Yeah, I have lost some brain cells. LOL!! It is good paint and can be expensive. I use a spray booth and buy in bulk if I can so it is not that bad. The bottom line is knowing the product that you use and having confidence in it. That is what makes guys say that they use the best paints out there. Good Luck
Posted 17 December 2009 - 04:48 PM
Various topcoats are available and all of them work fine. Epoxy, Dick Nite, automotive clears, etc. Each has its pros and cons, and its adherents. A builder chooses one because it's compatible with the other coatings he puts on his baits and because he knows how to apply that topcoat with good aesthetic results. All of them are beautiful and durable if properly applied. So yeah, an assertion that he's using "the best" paints and topcoat may be true in one sense (maybe the best he knows how to use?), but otherwise, it's just extra words in a sales pitch. JMHO
ps - nothing wrong with salesmanship. It may sell product. But hoopla is hoopla.
Posted 17 December 2009 - 04:53 PM
I get a kick out of reading through some of the custom paint auctions - - a lot of them would have you believe they have some German chemist locked away in their basement making the world's most superior basecoats and topcoats ONLY for them.
Posted 18 December 2009 - 08:00 AM
I would like to try the auto air but I haven't been able to find them where I live, and from what I've found online they seem to be pretty expensive. I want to find a clear coat for suspending lures. I think the devcon on the jerkbaits I paint may be a little too heavy. I still catch fish on them but I am always willing to try something new as long as it doesn't "break the bank".
Posted 18 December 2009 - 10:22 AM
All of them work fine ??? JMHO??
Oh C'mon Bob! That is a humble NON-Opinion! Uh, well, IMHO.
To quote Vincent in Pulp Fiction, "What do you mean you don't have an opinion? You GOT to have an OPINION!"
So say there is this builder, ahem, who can and has applied all of those coatings equally well, and with no application problems, and all the coatings turn out aesthetically perfect...and this builder isn't concerned about little price differences, but his only criteria is trying to build the very best bait he can build in every performance aspect, which clearcoat do you think I, I mean HE would choose?
Just having fun with this topic that's been beaten to death, and then beaten some more...actually, your answer was pretty good, and certainly the most diplomatic I've ever seen on this subject!!!
Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:35 PM
Dean, I definitely have favorites based on my own predilections - dipping Dick Nite and brushing Devcon Two Ton epoxy. If I had to pick one, it would be Dick Nite: dip it, hang it, ZAP, you're done! The 10 second finish! But I recognize my preferences have a lot to do with where I build baits (the garage, in all temperatures), what I build (bass baits that don't require Musky armor), and ease of application (did I mention 10 second finish?). I also use Devcon because it's cost effective, it levels beautifully, cures quicker than other brands, and never requires more than one coat. There's a theme in here somewhere - EASY. The choices you make are informed by how you think about your baits. I want baits to be very durable and attractive but to me, they are fishing tools that can be broken, lost, etc., so you try to strike a reasonable balance.
Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:51 PM
Hey Basser , if your looking for auto air paint , go to (CoastAirBrush) I just placed a order , 4oz. Bottle runs $6.95 - $7.10 ea. Shipping to Maryland is $7.00 , ....... Mike
Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:55 PM
RELEASE DA HOUNDS....
SHOW NO MERCY!
GIVE IT TO THEM Tater!..
WHAT WE NEED TO GET RID OF IS...... ALL THIS PC IN AMERICA!!!. KILL THE DAM OVERPOPULATED POLAR BEAR AND FEED THE WORLD TO SAVE WORLD HUNGER! what ever happened to that cause!.. GOBAL WARMING IS A JOKE JUST LIKE EPOXY!.. IM NOT DRINKIN THE AL GORE KOOLAID ANYMORE!! I hate waitin on a energy saving green light in the bathroom.. I end up pissin my pants before the sucker lights up the room so I can see where my zipper is... TELL ME HOW MUCH ENERGY ARE WE REALLY SAVING!!!
TELL THEM HOW YOU REALLY FEEL SKIPPY... ok I will dagnabit!
THEIR's NO CRYING IN BASEBALL! OR FISHING...
BUT TEBO SURE CRIED HIS EYE OUT THE OTHER DAY AGAINST BAMA... you make me sick TIM! I LOST ALL RESPECT!
And as for Tiger.. Rumor has it Dean makes such purdy lures using DN that Tiger Woods would hit it!........ WITH A GOLF BALL... (get your mind out of the gutter!)... and not leave a mark. ( THAT CAME FROM A inside Lure Professor type of SOURCE)
SO Suck it up and deal TEBO you lost!...Tiger your on your own, even with all of my marketing ability I couldnt get you out of this mess!.. and for the rest of you no good epoxy usin lovers.. DONT LIE WE ALL KNOW YOU GOT A MAN CRUSH ON TIM TEBO TOO!.... EPOXY IS NOT THE BEST CLEAR COAT made! ITS A DAM GOOD GLUE and that is it!. and guess what cupcakes it was made to be a GLUE not a CLEAR COAT!
As they say in Nascar.. the tires arent bad.. we just do bad things to them to make the cars go faster.
Im always looking for new and better ways to improve quality.. I stopped using epoxy to clear coat them long time ago. once you start tryin something else out and get it down...you will say why did I ever use that stuff in the first place. PLUS IT WAS TURNing MY EYE LIDS RED AND MY SKIN WAS PEELIN OFF!!!! THINK ABOUT THAT TOO WHILE YOUR USING IT!
I agree with Dean.. DN is great stuff.. just hard to learn how to use at the start.. but once you get it on your bait it stays on your bait!
Edited by The_Rookie, 18 December 2009 - 01:01 PM.
Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:31 PM
Your Just Too Funny Rookie , The can of worms is now pool size , LOL
Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:14 PM
I've only used automotive urethane clear on my lures so far, but i'd like to know how that compares to DN in both looks and durability? Any of you veteran builders/painters have experience with both of these?
I may need to get my hands on a sample of DN to try out myself.
Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:48 PM
i use automotive finish it is a little more expensive than alot of the "other Stuff" that u guys praise and its better with two coats it is impossible to scratch with a key! at three say hello to every rock that every destroyed your lure now you can be its best friend this stuff is the hardest easiest finish i have used and when it is applied its thin. many many many thin coats equals pay day. all ya got to do is dip your entire bait in it and it doesn't affect action at all. so look into it!
Posted 18 December 2009 - 11:21 PM
I'd bet most big crankbait companies use something like an automotive urethane on their baits, not moisture cured polyurethane. And they have it custom mixed for their production (as Dick Nite does). I'd try an automotive urethane in a heartbeat. BUT from what I hear, the most durable ones are 2 part finishes that require a catalyst and are toxic to spray, requiring added safety precautions. I like to dip baits, so mixing up a pint of auto urethane which has a limited pot life for half a dozen crankbaits is not gonna work. If I got it all wrong and there's a perfect one part auto finish for me out there somewhere, don't be COY! Do tell!
Posted 19 December 2009 - 12:34 AM
I went to order some more DN tonight and there is a little blurb on there saying it's not available anymore? Anyone know about this? And Rookie, Tebow is a little girl, and don't forget about my Warriors on the Water baits! I emailed ya! ROLL TIDE!!!
Posted 19 December 2009 - 12:25 PM
I actually mix my 2K auto urethane for one bait at a time if needed. I use Flex-Coat syringes (one to suck out the clear, and another to suck out the catalyst) to get even small amounts dead-on accurate......quickly and easily. I commonly mix up just enough to spray 3 or 4 coats on just one bait.
Just make sure to run a little lacquer thinner in and out of your syringes afterward or they won't last as long.
I'll bet it takes me less than a minute to Plaster of Paris open the lids, suck out the amounts, and mix . I actually prefer the two-part system because it makes storage and shelf-life a non-issue.
Application is simple (I spray from my .5mm Revolution) and requires no lure rotation - - just a perfect even coat all the way around, without any "edge thinning."
Is it as tough as DN or epoxies? I'm not sure.....I would like to set up an experiment to really find out.
Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:19 AM
What brand urethane clear do you use? I've never seen one that was an even 1:1 mix of clear and catalyst? All my clears are 2:1 but most of what i've got is 4:1
Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:51 AM
Before every body goes out to buy automotive clear coat the catalyst does have a shelf life. You will find out the hard way when you open it and let it set around for a while. Un less you have a perfect place to keep it. And also the two part auto clears have a chemical that I cant spell that can absorb into your skin eyes clothes if not protected properly. Leave that stuff alone guys unless you can protect yourself and the others in your family. At work when we spray we even have an air supplied mask. That tell you how bad it can be. As for a one part automotive clear the only other one I have used is Laquer but that has been gone in my area for more than 15 yrs but that was way to brittle for this application. And it is way more durable than the epoxy glue that everyone uses.
Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:11 AM
It's Matrix MS-42, and it mixes 2:1. The syringes are marked, I'm not just filling up the cylinders with both parts.
And I believe Frank is talking about isocyanates. Yes, they're dangersous, and have been well discussed on this forum in auto urethane posts, but I suppose any new post on the subject should discuss it.
It's dangerous. You need proper safety equipment. I wear a full-face respirator, gloves, and have a squirrel cage fan exhausting the fumes.
I also didn't mean to imply that it had an infinite shelf-life......only that two part systems, IMO, are easier to store.
I hope that covers everything! I never said auto-clear was superior to anything, only giving my experience using it.
Edited by Stringjam, 20 December 2009 - 08:15 AM.