Infringement Rights

[bwillaub]

DITTO!

[smallmouthaholic]

Gentlemen-

A person/company that spends the time and MONEY to:

1- develop a new soft-bait-unique in design

2-come up w/ a catchy name

3-spends the $$$ to distribute all the freebies to "get the bait out there"

4- takes the proper steps and spends the $$$ for a design patent and trademark w/ a legal firm and gets that approved and issued through the United states patent and trademark office-

Has the legal right to have that product/name protected. Come'n fellas - anyone who uses the name sweet or beaver,whether apart or together deserves a cease and desists notice.

Ever here of Coca-cola -- Pepsi---Dr. Pepper -- Tylenol --B.A.S.S. ???? !!!!!

[GB GONE]

Gentlemen-

A person/company that spends the time and MONEY to:

1- develop a new soft-bait-unique in design

2-come up w/ a catchy name

3-spends the $$$ to distribute all the freebies to "get the bait out there"

4- takes the proper steps and spends the $$$ for a design patent and trademark w/ a legal firm and gets that approved and issued through the United states patent and trademark office-

Has the legal right to have that product/name protected. Come'n fellas - anyone who uses the name sweet or beaver,whether apart or together deserves a cease and desists notice.

Ever here of Coca-cola -- Pepsi---Dr. Pepper -- Tylenol --B.A.S.S. ???? !!!!!

Can I get an AMEN!!!!!

I am all about free speech (I think restricting the use of the bait names is WAY overboard!) however if you were the person that had trademarked, copyrighted or patented any of the lures, names, products etc, you would be doing the EXACT same thing!!!

This is the entrpreneur at its finest. One time, Andre's company was small and just an idea like most of ours.

Put yourself in his shoes and see how you would think with everybody trying to ride YOUR coat tails....

My 2 cents... Jim

[bryanmc]

Gentlemen-

A person/company that spends the time and MONEY to:

1- develop a new soft-bait-unique in design

2-come up w/ a catchy name

3-spends the $$$ to distribute all the freebies to "get the bait out there"

4- takes the proper steps and spends the $$$ for a design patent and trademark w/ a legal firm and gets that approved and issued through the United states patent and trademark office-

Has the legal right to have that product/name protected. Come'n fellas - anyone who uses the name sweet or beaver,whether apart or together deserves a cease and desists notice.

Ever here of Coca-cola -- Pepsi---Dr. Pepper -- Tylenol --B.A.S.S. ???? !!!!!

I agree to a point, but following your above logic, use of the words cola, pepper and bass in any way shape or form by anyone other than the above mentioned companies would be forbidden. It would also mean that baits like horny toad, sizmic toad, hyper toad etc would all need to be renamed. The word beaver is not exclusive to ri baits. How about all the different "frog" baits? Same story.

[smallmouthaholic]

I agree to a point, but following your above logic, use of the words cola, pepper and bass in any way shape or form by anyone other than the above mentioned companies would be forbidden. It would also mean that baits like horny toad, sizmic toad, hyper toad etc would all need to be renamed. The word beaver is not exclusive to ri baits. How about all the different "frog" baits? Same story.

Then you hire a trademark/patent attorney and spend $20,000.00 for starters in D.C. to argue that in court. then if you loose ,you won't believe your financial liabilities

Since R.I. has boat-loads of $,you better be able to play 'blind-man's bluff' financially.

The word sweet beaver is exclusive to R.I.baits. I wouldn't touch either one w/ a ten foot stick. It's so easy to get another catchy name for your baits. Be innovative-why copy their name? (because you want the consumer to think yours are the same- . )That doesn't butter the bread in a registered trademark fight

[bryanmc]

Then you hire a trademark/patent attorney and spend $20,000.00 for starters in D.C. to argue that in court. then if you loose ,you won't believe your financial liabilities

Since R.I. has boat-loads of $,you better be able to play 'blind-man's bluff' financially.

The word sweet beaver is exclusive to R.I.baits. I wouldn't touch either one w/ a ten foot stick. It's so easy to get another catchy name for your baits. Be innovative-why copy their name? (because you want the consumer to think yours are the same- . )That doesn't butter the bread in a registered trademark fight

I have no intention of doing that. I only make baits for myself and don't even have names for them. I'm just here for the discussion. I agree that calling a bait a sweet beaver would violate the trademark / patent. The question is, does owning the patent on 2 words used together negate everyone else from using either of the words separately? Again, I use toad and frog as the example, they're used by many many manufacturers to describe a certain type of bait. How about craw? Who should own that word?

[smallmouthaholic]

I have no intention of doing that. I only make baits for myself and don't even have names for them. I'm just here for the discussion. I agree that calling a bait a sweet beaver would violate the trademark / patent. The question is, does owning the patent on 2 words used together negate everyone else from using either of the words separately? Again, I use toad and frog as the example, they're used by many many manufacturers to describe a certain type of bait. How about craw? Who should own that word?

Any wording of sweet an/or beaver associated w/ any other crayfish type of commercial soft-bait would probably receive a cease and desist letter I.M.O.

I am not a specialized lawyer but do have a personal experience w/ my own trademark dispute 21 years ago.My lawyer said we could win but wanted 20k to defend it in Washington. But what if i loose?

The trademark office searched the name and drawings when we applied, said it was clean , not used and an exclusive trade mark would be issued if no one objected. The company that objected was a subsidiary of Johnson Wax. and filed the objection on the last day possible before the trademark was issued.My name and drawing logos were entirely different but the name began w/the same last letter of the alphabet. It cost me an additional $3500.00 w/the lawyers and I left disgusted and changed the name. i can only imagine what a patent infringement suit can cost in legal fees. The entire education & deal cost me $7500.00 plus shirts,hats ,jackets and pre-printed lure cards. that's exactly why I use my own name for the company now. All this legal stuff comes down to who has the fatter wallet and is willing to take a big financial chance and liability in court w/ a patent/trademark dispute.

That is many.many free baits

Edited for additional,factual content

Edited February 10, 2010 by smallmouthaholic

[powerworm]

HOW ABOUT USING SMELLY WATER RATS???

[Peterjay]

Here's a little reading material on the subject. Selling a few lures out of the truck is one thing, but if you want to do some serious business, you'd better be informed as to the legalities involved. You can be sure that the competition has already done their homework. (I know a couple of people who were turned in by competitors and busted by the IRS, but that's another story) It probably wouldn't hurt to look into taking a course or two in the basics of business law, or at the very least, pick up a book on the subject. It would save money in the long run, and prevent a lot of headaches down the road.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm

[GB GONE]

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm

Good read..... Bottom line is that if you are using any words that are Trademarked to attempt to profit, you will really be rolling the dice if you decide NOT to cease and desist.

I have been told by a trademark lawyer that defense of a trademark can easily start at $750,000.00. With damages set at 3 times the amount, most all of us are broke many times over with a court lose.

Of course, you can't get blood from a rock either!!!!!

Jim

[clemmy]

I'm by no means an expert, but here are my thoughts.

1)From my understanding, a patent of any type, or trademark is meaningless unless vigorously defended. Thus even if the big company never plans on ACTUALLY suing the small timer, if he doesn't make them cease and desist, then his patent has no power, and another big company is free to violate it. So they HAVE to be mean in a way.

2)Also, you are required to label any advertising either patent applied, pending or have the patent number shown. I just looked an RI's page lists the design patent, but not the functional. So as long as you remember the date, they no longer have the protection of the functional patent. Of course they could still sue you into bankrupcy, but if you were Zoom, you would win.

Clemmy

[B and D Lures]

Well guys, I appreciate all the input on the RI lure. I have to say that I made a few in the past for my personal use, and never caught a fish on them. I sent them a certified letter stating that I would take their lure off my website and would not use the name in writing. I am a one man,part time business and I do not need the hassle. They want their bait they can have it. Look for the 2 molds I have. They will be on ebay in a few days. Again, thanks for the input.

Bob

www.bandlures.com

[jigginpig]

Well guys, I appreciate all the input on the RI lure. I have to say that I made a few in the past for my personal use, and never caught a fish on them. I sent them a certified letter stating that I would take their lure off my website and would not use the name in writing. I am a one man,part time business and I do not need the hassle. They want their bait they can have it. Look for the 2 molds I have. They will be on ebay in a few days. Again, thanks for the input.

Bob

www.bandlures.com

Andre Moore is a tool. There is nothing new under the sun.

I use the bait in all sizes and most colors. That is not to say that he has any new ideas, just that of the A. V. type baits, I happen to like

his version the best. Face it, R. I. does make sick baits. But Andre is a tool. Without his help from Japan, Andre would have little to offer than adolescent humor... Dirty Sanches? that anyone would name a color after a feces moustache is telling of that persons psyche.

[carolinamike]

I believe what really got everybody on this one is the time frame. If Andre had really went after people like he's doing now when the Beaver first hit the market I'm sure there wouldn't be so many knock off's out there today. Don't get me wrong, he paid for the patent, he paid for the copyright, by all means it's his bait. When you sit back and really think about it, maybe this was part of his intentions. To let it go to the point that the big companies got involved, then cash in with the lawyers. There definitely is a lawsuit on the docket filed against Strike King (filed 11-06-09). If they win this one, watch out. They'll go after the next big company. I can't wait to see how it turns out in the end, but I will say this, if you are making anything close to the bait, then I would stop. I work for people now, that put a lot of time and money in developing plastic baits. The cost you wouldn't believe, and you've already read some quotes about the cost of a patent and copyright, so you see what they have at stake.

[rxfish]

I believe what really got everybody on this one is the time frame. If Andre had really went after people like he's doing now when the Beaver first hit the market I'm sure there wouldn't be so many knock off's out there today. Don't get me wrong, he paid for the patent, he paid for the copyright, by all means it's his bait. When you sit back and really think about it, maybe this was part of his intentions. To let it go to the point that the big companies got involved, then cash in with the lawyers. There definitely is a lawsuit on the docket filed against Strike King (filed 11-06-09). If they win this one, watch out. They'll go after the next big company. I can't wait to see how it turns out in the end, but I will say this, if you are making anything close to the bait, then I would stop. I work for people now, that put a lot of time and money in developing plastic baits. The cost you wouldn't believe, and you've already read some quotes about the cost of a patent and copyright, so you see what they have at stake.

[rxfish]

Before I sold the business my bait was called the Eager Beaver. Didn't have a clue any part of that belonged to someone else. I did get an e-mail and I did change the name.

[uwfishmd]

I am wondering about that myself. Where do you go to research whether a worm you want to pour is patented or copyrighted all ready?

[cajun425]

There is a big difference between a lawyer or company attesting to copyright infringement and actually being guilty of it. I agree, the name was not even close. I would have asked for further information on how YOUR name was infringing on their registered name AND mentioned that you would forward the information to YOUR lawyer. Someone was trying to strong arm you.... and it worked. Now if the actual bait was close to theirs in size and design, then that might be considered an infringement of their copyrighted pattern. Which is different than the registered trade mark name of the bait.

[Fish On!]

I am wondering about that myself. Where do you go to research whether a worm you want to pour is patented or copyrighted all ready?

I would like the answer to the ABOVE QUESTION.

[bobv]

Here's an interesting bit of info. Many companies use an automated search engine to look for their product name on the internet regardless of how the word or name was used. If found an automatic email is sent out and some companies follow up with a paper letter. In a lot of cases they don't have any real ground to stand on but it's cheap to send the old s/d letter. My wife works for a major manufacturer of roofing products and they do this quite regularly, but unless their lawyer calls you it's just a case you just happened to fall into the parameters of the search engine. This would explain why using beaver in a generic context would generate a response from RI. I plan to use beaver in every email and post from now on just to drive them crazy!

[BrownPigs]

Here's an interesting bit of info. Many companies use an automated search engine to look for their product name on the internet regardless of how the word or name was used. If found an automatic email is sent out and some companies follow up with a paper letter. In a lot of cases they don't have any real ground to stand on but it's cheap to send the old s/d letter. My wife works for a major manufacturer of roofing products and they do this quite regularly, but unless their lawyer calls you it's just a case you just happened to fall into the parameters of the search engine. This would explain why using beaver in a generic context would generate a response from RI. I plan to use beaver in every email and post from now on just to drive them crazy!

I might do the same. End every post with "the new sweet beaver bait I made is better than the original" weather I am talking about a soft plastic, crankbaits, cooking, anything.

[Delw]

I am wondering about that myself. Where do you go to research whether a worm you want to pour is patented or copyrighted all ready?

I would like the answer to the ABOVE QUESTION.

Heres a so so answer its the best one I have found so far

the way to find out is goto a bait store and see what bait is closest to yours and then on that package should be a patent number, if there is no patent number on the bait or on the package then Its more than likely NOT patented.

you can do a search however you will need to know the name of the person who made the bait. very very rarely is the company name on that patent as or the bait name.

if you feel like searching through thousands of patents you can type in fishing bait in there search engine, it will bring up literially thousands of baits. you can also try searching for unique features, but you need to know whats unique and whats not. Sometimes a bait patent is decieving as well. for example zoom is pretty good for this. they will have patent # on some baits however the only thing that is actually a patent on that bait is bumps the bait itself has no patent, just the bumps in the bait are patented. you can make that exact bait 100% identical and leave out the patented bumps and you break no patents.

its pretty much a crap shoot finding a patent unless the # is on the bag in hopes your not breaking it.

Delw

[schreecher2]

Heres a so so answer its the best one I have found so far

the way to find out is goto a bait store and see what bait is closest to yours and then on that package should be a patent number, if there is no patent number on the bait or on the package then Its more than likely NOT patented.

you can do a search however you will need to know the name of the person who made the bait. very very rarely is the company name on that patent as or the bait name.

if you feel like searching through thousands of patents you can type in fishing bait in there search engine, it will bring up literially thousands of baits. you can also try searching for unique features, but you need to know whats unique and whats not. Sometimes a bait patent is decieving as well. for example zoom is pretty good for this. they will have patent # on some baits however the only thing that is actually a patent on that bait is bumps the bait itself has no patent, just the bumps in the bait are patented. you can make that exact bait 100% identical and leave out the patented bumps and you break no patents.

its pretty much a crap shoot finding a patent unless the # is on the bag in hopes your not breaking it.

Delw

I have been thru this issue before, with the letter from the laywer and everything. The person had a design patent, and it was applied for under false statements. If the bait has been in circulation for a year before the patent was applied for, and used in any public documents, and in the pattent application they are asked this, and they do not disclose the correct information, then the patent can be challenged. This was the case, and I challenged the person with my own lawyer (of course I had to do all the searching though), and he backed down and basically never contacted me again. So, there are issues where if someone was to do the research, and it was public knowledge, then they may not have a problem with winning the case. So, they need to apply for the patent before it is in the public.......

[boomah21]

Hey this isnt the same issue but thought you guys might find this interesting.

PRESS RELEASE

April 14, 2010

For Immediate Release:

Contact: Ken Huddleston

Huddleston Deluxe, Inc.

Huddleston Deluxe Awarded Key Patent on SwimBait

Las Vegas, NV - April 14, 2010 - Huddleston Deluxe, the leading innovator and provider of swimbait fishing lures, today announced that it has been awarded "Fish Lure with Vortex Tail" as U.S. Patent Number 7,627,979, issued December 2, 2009. This patent issued to Huddleston Deluxe, Inc. by the United States Patent and Trademark Office covers the key characteristics required to manufacture a swimbait having a weighted insert and vortex tail design. The patented features enable several important benefits such as:

Life-like swimming action during slow or fast retrieves;

A vortex tail to move water in a certain and enticing manner; and

Balanced fishing lure feature for stable movement through a body of water.

Huddleston Deluxe is pleased that the USPTO has issued this patent and believes that its patent will provide protection for the swimbait products of Huddleston Deluxe.

"A U.S. patent entitles its owner to prevent anyone else from making, using, importing, offering to sell, or selling the invention described in the patent claims in the U.S," said Richard T. Ogawa, Patent Counsel for Huddleston Deluxe. "Enforcement of the U.S. Patent may be against manufacturers, distributors, and retailers of any infringing swimbait products."

Huddleston Deluxe has commenced a dialog with retailers and vendors about this patent.

"We hope to help bring some order to an industry that has been plagued with a certain amount of ignorance with respect to intellectual property rights" said Ken Huddleston, founder of Huddleston Deluxe and inventor of the patent. "I believe that the U.S. Patent system works and hope to help the real innovators in the industry protect its products."

To view the U.S. Patent, Click Here

Please feel free to forward this email to anyone.

Thank You,

Huddleston Deluxe, Inc.

[hook seter]

The name "Beaver" being used in a Forum, seems to me, is bringing them a lot of FREE Advertisement .........

Really "Fishey" that they should complain about using the name anywhere ...EXCEPT on the Product.

My 2 cents (I have been known to be wrong ... just ask my wife )

JSC

WHAT ABOUT FREE SPEACH BABY HU WHAT ABOUT THAT. THE LAST I NEW WE LIVED IN THE GOOD OLD U.S.A . I AM A NO BODY ON HERE BUT I PAY MY TAX'S AN I VOTE SO I THINK IF I WONT TO SAY"BEAVER" THEN I AM GOING TO SAY "BEAVER" AN IF THEY TRY TO SUE ME FOR SAYING "BEAVER" THEN LET THEM BECOSE I LOST EVERY THING WHEN THE DAM "BEAVER'S" DAM'D THE RIVER UP . YOU KNOW THOUS FURY THINGS WITH PADELS FOR TAILS WE PEAPLE IN THE GOOD OLD U.S.A. CALL THEM "BEVER" AT LEAST FOR 2 HUNDRED YEARS. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS SITE . THIS IS JUST ONE MAN'S THOUT'S ABOUT THE WARD "BEVER" AN THATS ALL FOLKS .ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BIULDING