Clear Coat Opinions
23 replies to this topic
Posted 10 February 2010 - 01:58 PM
Guys been building for about two weeks now, and i been clearin my lures with a coat I had a local body shop mix up for me. The clear is laquer based and seems to do a really good job, ive been double coating my lures. Bud I had stopped in today lookin for a flash to put in the clear coat and another gentleman asked what i was clearing and we got into the discussions of clearcoat. I was just wondering what you guys use and how do you use it? Do you dip it like I do ? or do you spray it ? Any help in this matter would be appreciated thx.
Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:15 PM
I'm also interested to know if there are any good clear coats that can be sprayed on. I'm in no hurry and number of coats don't matter to me.
Posted 10 February 2010 - 06:23 PM
There are a few that are spraying multiple coats of DN and I think they are cutting it with acetone. Not sure of the ratio. Do a search of the posts by using the search feature in the upper right hand corner of this page and you can find a lot more info.
Posted 11 February 2010 - 02:18 AM
Clearcoats I see here on TU fall into 3 general categories. Epoxies that are brushed on, moisture cured polyurethanes that are dipped or brushed, and automotive clears that are typically airbrushed. Epoxies include Devcon Two Ton, Envirotex Lite, Flexcoat, Nu-Lustre. The most popular moisture cured poly is Dick Nite (aka DN). Auto clears are less popular because the most durable ones are reportedly 2 part finishes with limited pot life and are pretty toxic, requiring vapor protection.
I'm not familiar with auto lacquers and don't know how tough and waterproof they are. We'd all appreciate hearing about your experience with them when you have had a chance to get them wet. You can use the search function to explore lots of info on any of the finishes mentioned.
Posted 11 February 2010 - 10:27 AM
Envirotex can be purchased in a spray can. The coat that is rendered would naturally be thinner and for appropriate protection you'd probably need to apply multiple coats.
Posted 11 February 2010 - 05:20 PM
The "Fishermun's Lure Coat" the link speaks about is a "lacquer based product" and is a different animal than the "Top Coat". The Top Coat is NOT lacquer based. The top coat is a moisture cure polyurethane. Just wanted to make sure you understood this before you started experimenting with the top coat. As I understand from fellow TU'ers there are some who are spraying the top coat and if memory serves me right they are thinning it with acetone and applying somewhere in the neighborhood of six coats.
Edited by RayburnGuy, 11 February 2010 - 05:22 PM.
Posted 11 February 2010 - 05:55 PM
Talked to Dick Nite today on the phone. He explained to me about his top coat, and was a really nice guy. I had a bunch of questions about clearing and using topcoat. I guess the biggest thing for me was with dipping. Thats what I been doin with my lures and with his stuff im assuming you can and he says you can but unless I have a bunch to do at once its gonna be hard as, moisture in the air is what sets this stuff up. So every time I open the can up to dip a lure in and close it Im assuming this stuff is gonna thicken up and eventually completely set. Any methods you guys could share about using and maintaing this stuff with out it setting up would be greatly appreciated. Im also assuming from what ive read and talked to him this stuff dries up pretty quickly.
Posted 11 February 2010 - 08:34 PM
Do a search for Dick Nite and you will find heaps of info on storage and application. You may have to read through the topics but the information is there.
From a storage perspective, remembering I cant get Dick Nite but use something similar, you need an inert gas to sit in the jar / tin to stop the moisture getting to the product. I use Argon cause the other option, Bloxygen is not available in Aus. The beauty of Argon is that I believe it is heavier (??) than air so will naturally sit on the product surface. I wont speak for others, however, I have been testing the suitability of Argon for the past few months and deliberately been sloppy, my stuff is still as viscous as the day I opened it. I did dispense some from the main tin though just in case. I have also been brushing the coating on straight from the testing jar, thus re-dipping exposed topcoat for up too 5 minutes of application. If you were dipping you could do quite a few lures in that time. Personnaly storage is not a problem nor time consuming, the benefits are worth it. Maybe it is too early to tell, but things are looking roses at the moment.
From an application perspective, I have brushed, dipped and sprayed. To spray I thin my topcoat to no specific ratio with acetone, just till I recon its good enough to go through the airbrush. Spraying looks to put a very thin layer in place, I'll do the lure lightly and let it sit for a couple of minutes then put a thicker coat on by just spraying back and forth and slowly turning. I find spraying a pain though due to the setup and clean-up. Dipping is by far the easiest and if I can't dip I now brush instead of spraying cause the setup and cleanup is much easier. To dip, as you will find in your search, I do like others, dip to the nose of the bait and hang to dry. If some gets on the lip it doesnt bother me. Depending on the lure, if the product "pool's" somewhere I dont want it (like a painted and topcoated lip) I will get a cotton bud or paper edge and gently touch the bottom of the drop with it (dont touch the paint job). This should break the surface tension of the drop and the pooled liquid inside will flow onto the cotton bud / paper, the drop will collapse to nothing thus not either damaging the paint coat or leaving a hard drop of topcoat.
Anyway, hope this helps, certainly do a search and the information which you find is amazing and will no doubt answer your questions.
Posted 11 February 2010 - 10:49 PM
A lot of DN hobby users in the US use Bloxygen, which is an aerosol can of nitrogen and argon gas. It costs around $10 and I use about a can for every quart of DN, shooting a little in my dipping jar just before I screw the lid on. I'm a hobby builder and never build more than 6 baits at a time, so regularly dip just a few baits and reseal the DN. I'm pretty sure other options like argon welding gas and other finish preserver gases would work as well and might be more cost efficient, but the Bloxygen is convenient.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 12:25 AM
Welding Argon is what I use. It comes in 60L cylinders over here, buy a regulator to slowly bleed it out as required, a bit of air hose and you are away. As for which is more cost affective, dont know. It cost around $60 AUD for the lot, the regulator and hose are good until you break them, only time will tell how long the cylinder will last.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 04:07 AM
What are your capabilities and shop setup?
Do you have a spraybooth that's filtered and vented outside?
If your shop's not set up to vent fumes to outside you don't want to be messing around with spraying anything that's tough enough to hold up.
If you are set up..........I used DN for a while thinned 3:1 with acetone....sprayed with a siphon feed 0.5 mm airbrush.....took a few coats but you only have to wait a few minutes between if you're spraying lightly........I misted two coats then did 4-5 more a little heavier. Not too heavy or it'll run like anythig else. Not sure that many coats were really necessary, the stuff soaks into both the cretex i used to use and the HOK urethanes I use now, and is very tough. Takes a long time to fully cure though.
I now use a urethane automotive clear. Yes, there's an extra step in mixing the two parts, but I've moved on to painting a couple things other than lures and it works just as well for lures and better for other things. It sprays much nicer too. It just lays down more nicely. Two wet coats 5 minutes apart and two hours later it can be handled.........two days it's rock hard and tough. It's a little different than DN in the way it wears but it's just as tough. It chips more than cuts if that makes any sense. DN seems a little more flexible. It's about twice as expensive as DN though.
Regardless, if you're wanting to spray, make sure your shop is vented well enough and still wear a respirator.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 04:46 AM
Angus- is this the stuff you are using??? http://www.catchofth...roducts_id=3764 - I never thought of argon, so simple . Or maybe this, it's not moisture cured but just as tough at twice the price
Edited by hazmail, 12 February 2010 - 04:50 AM.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 05:14 AM
Very good, liked the link. As for your product, no thats not what I am using, its nothing special and I'm sure you have used it before, Pelucid. I have tried both two and single pack moisture cures available here and it appears to work fine, albeit with a long drying time for real hardness. I would love to try some dick nite but apparently cant freight it here due to flamable goods. I found a couple of links to other single packs aswell which I also may try after this lot. I can send you the links if you want.
As for the Argon, I got mine at Gasweld, they also sell the regulator and I guess hose (I had some hose lying around to use). Its a great setup and the regulator keeps a good seal and allows you to trickle it out easily. Here's the link
Dont buy the expensive gauge regulators thought, I doubt you will need it. I got one of the cheap ones at about $20.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:30 PM
I seriously doubt anyone will be using enough Argon when sealing their DN or other moisture cure products for this to be a problem, but just remember that since Argon is heavier than air it is not a good idea to get it into your lungs. It will end up in the bottom of your lungs where it is extremely hard to get out. If your using the Argon cylinders, such as those used for welding, just make sure to turn them off tightly to avoid any leaks. This advice comes from a lifetime of welding experience and I wouldn't want to see anyone be harmed by something that can so easily be avoided.
Edited by RayburnGuy, 12 February 2010 - 01:31 PM.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 02:29 PM
Has anyone tried Seal Coat from Component Systems. I like it, easy to use it is water base, worm proof and crystal clear. Dip or spray. A little pricy but I like it.
You can get from luresonline or stamina same place.
Posted 12 February 2010 - 04:09 PM
Yes...........and it is not nearly tough enough for fishing lures. I have a gallon of it in the back room and you can have it if you drive by to get it.........I'm in Oregon.
Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:31 PM
Does anybody know where I can buy Envirotex Lite in the Appleton, Green Bay area of Wisconsin? All I seem to find on internet searches is mail order places.
Posted 15 February 2010 - 02:08 PM
Your local hardware stores should have it. I live in Delafield, Wisc. and I can get it at the local hardware store down here. Nice stuff! Ace Hardware should have it. Otherwise, go to DicK Blick out of Minn. Art supplier. Good luck.