16 replies to this topic
Posted 17 February 2010 - 04:02 PM
I'm currently trying to source out a readily available in small quantities raw material for making some heavier set giant spoons in an attempt to imitate the general profile and shape of 1-2 pound giant trevally or big eyed jacks (jack crevalles look similar) I'd like it heavy enough so that it can be retrieved really fast and I have a rod that can toss a 30 ounce bait so weight isn't much of a factor. Any help or advice is much appreciated. Thanks!!!
Posted 17 February 2010 - 04:35 PM
Google Rotometals and check out what they have. I buy my tin from them, and the service has been very good.
Posted 17 February 2010 - 05:18 PM
They look like they have everything, but I don't even know what metal it is I should be looking for. Stainless steel? If so, what type?
I have no idea how to even get started but I kinda know what I want to end result to be. Again, any help or advice is much appreciated.
Posted 17 February 2010 - 06:19 PM
I'm not really sure what you're looking for either, but as far as I know, spoons are usually stamped out of sheet brass or steel. I work with tin a bit, and it would certainly be suitable for big spoons, but it would involve making a mold and casting the metal. I'll guarantee you'd be the only guy on the block with a few 24 ounce tin spoons in his bag.
Posted 17 February 2010 - 09:18 PM
OK, uhmmm, I don't know squat about stamping nor do I have the capital to begin such en endeavor which leaves a mold. Would that be a wood mold? Also, how are you melting the tin? Sorry for so many mundane questions, but I really have no clue how to even begin here! The tin thing is definitely sounding like the way to go!
Posted 17 February 2010 - 09:20 PM
It sounds like your going to be using these spoons in saltwater. If so I'd recommend something that won't rust. Stainless steel, copper, brass and bronze come to mind. You can find the specific weights of each material by looking online. It will give you something like a weight per cubic inches or square foot and then you'll just have to do the appropriate conversion by the size of the spoon your building to arrive at an approximate weight. Another thing you can find are metal shims which are used in leveling machinery and can be bought in different thicknesses. For sure you can find these in both stainless and brass. They can be bought in rolls or in different size rectangular pieces. There are several different grades of stainless and I wouldn't think this should be of great concern for what your wanting to do. Different grades of stainless have varying resistance to things like acids, but since fish don't live in acid I wouldn't worry about this. Good luck and keep us posted on how things work out.
Posted 17 February 2010 - 11:14 PM
GT, you could certainly make a mold and cast yourself some king-sized spoons from tin, but you're still looking at a steep learning curve and considerable expense. Tin goes for about $12 U.S./pound and silicone rubber mold material goes for $25/$30 per pound, depending on what kind you use. (and you'd most likely go through plenty of it) You could have a metal mold cast or machined from your prototype, but you'd be talking about a pretty substantial outlay. If it were my problem to solve, I'd definitely try the tin route, but fashioning them from sheet metal like RG suggested probably makes a lot more sense.
Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:30 AM
Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:27 AM
@ GT hunter
I have been making casting spoons for almost two decades now , ..........and metal work is not easy to achieve with just hobby tools(did a lot of cutting and shaping at my work in the metal industry) .
I have no idea , which kinda spoon you have in mind other that in should be big , heavy and saltwatwer proof !
Is your planned design rather a thin sheet-metal type of lure for casting/trolling or a rather more 3-dimensional one for jigging ?
Stainless steel sheet 0f 0,5mm thickness can still be cut with ordinary shears ,..........1,0mm is already impossible to cut it and requires bench shears or a metal bladed band saw for the raw cut out .
Stainless steel sheet thicker than 2,0mm thickness can't be hammered into a cupped shape anymore just by hand and ballpeen hammer anymore , would require some kinda press and stamping/shaping tools .
After the initial cut-out the final shaping and smoothening the outline edges would have to be done with an industrial grade grinding wheel , .......you could clamb the spoon blank in a vise as well and file to shape , but this takes A LOT of elbow grease and time !
Other sheet metals suitable are copper and brass , though I think , that they would require added protection(topcoat) against saltwater .
These metals are easier to work with than stainless steel , f. e. one can still cut 1,5mm thicknesses of these with ordinary hand shears , copper for instance is very soft to beat it to shape in a hardwood cupping template .
They are also easier to file down with large coarse files compared to stainless steel , but still time consuming compared to carving wood lures .
For heavier spoons you might use thinner brass sheet 1,0 mm or copper sheet 1,0 to 2,0 mm and plate them with tin solder(flux containing) .
If you want rather more a jigging spoon , you need to cast them from lead or special lead alloys , thus requiring a mold , heat source , etc .
Over here in Germany a few readily made molds for such lures both of aluminium or heat resistant silicone are avilable at one certain supplier , but you might as well make a mold at home .
greetz , diemai
Posted 18 February 2010 - 04:51 AM
As Diemai said working with stainless is no easy chore after you reach a certain thickness, but if need be it can still be cut with a hacksaw and hammered into shape. If you use a hacksaw you will need some type of cutting fluid or oil to make the cutting easier. If you have at least some ability with tools and a lot of patience I don't see why you can't pull it off. I don't know what thickness you would need to achieve the weight you want at a given length of bait. This is something you will have to figure out at some point. Another thing to take into consideration is how much thickness you will need for a given length bait to keep it from bending. The shape of the bait would also come into play here. Something with a slight curve to it will withstand more bending forces than a flat shape of the same thickness. You can achieve a curved shape by hammering the metal over a curved surface such as a piece of heavy pipe with the radius you want in your bait. If I were you the first thing I would do is decide on the shape of the spoon. You can do this by looking at other spoons to get a general idea or maybe taking features from a couple different spoons and combining them to get what you want. Then I would come up with a ballpark figure on the physical dimensions of the spoon and how much I wanted it to weigh. This will tell you how thick the chosen material will have to be. You will also need to figure out what color or finish you want to end up with. If your wanting something silvery and shiny you could used polished aluminum or stainless. Keep in mind that aluminum is much lighter than stainless and this would effect the overall dimensions and thickness of the material. If you decide to use brass or copper and still wanted a shiny finish then you are talking about having it chrome plated. This is where you have to weigh the amount of work put into making a spoon out of something like stainless against making it out of a more malleable (softer and easier to work) metal, such as copper, and then trying to find someone who will put a chrome finish on a few lures and how much they will charge you to do it. Stainless can be pretty hard to work if you don't have a clue as to what your doing and don't have at the very least a good saw and a grinder. You don't have to have a bench grinder. A hand held grinder such as those used by welders will do. If you have any scrap yards in your area you might possibly find a piece of stainless pipe the right size that already has the approximate curvature or radius you want in your spoon. This would save a lot of work right off the bat. Make yourself some sketches and take some notes as to what your trying to achieve and that should give you a starting point. Then you can start doing some figuring on the type and thickness of the metal you want to build your spoon out of. If I can help you in any way just give me a shout and I'll be glad to oblige. Remember one thing. No matter how hard it is to build or how many times you mash your thumb it will all have been worth it when you catch that first fish on something you have created. Good luck.
p.s. Another thing about stainless is that it can be polished with polishing compound to almost a mirror finish if that is what your looking for.
Edited by RayburnGuy, 18 February 2010 - 04:56 AM.
Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:51 AM
I think my next step is going to be as earlier suggested: I gotta figure out what thickness I need in order to achieve the weight I'm looking for. I think with my limited supply of tools, I will be looking at lots of elbow grease with the stainless steel...probably going to try cutting with a hacksaw. I didn't know about using a liquid to aid in the cutting before so thanks for that! I was thinking about using a treated hardwood block to help me hammer a curve right down the center lengthwise to aid in the action and then I was going to pound the &^%# out of the head area to make it a touch thinner than the back. What do you suggest for a polishing compound?
Posted 19 February 2010 - 03:33 PM
@ GT hunter
You could buy hobby polishing tools in every toolmart ,........ these consist of a few different wheels(steel bristle , brass bristle , cord , felt and linnen , plus some polishing paste) . These wheels are about 6" in diameter and have a shaft to fix in the chuck of a drill .
The drawback is , that most common drills are too slow , one needs quite a few thousands of rpm to achieve a good result , ........I am using these hobby tools , but I chuck them into a souped up electric motor on my lathe , that turns somewhat faster than an ordinary drill .
The polishing does work with a drill at about 2500 rpm , but its harder and the results are not that good , as if done at double speed !
You might as well decorate your spoons with adhesive foil , scale foil or even simple aluminium tape , also painting or glitter flake plating is possible , but make sure to either polish or at least clean off the tarnish and buff them before , ...depending on which method you'd prefer .
To get a little idea , you may check my gallery uploads a way back , I've uploaded quite a few of my spoons in there .
And if you're not geared up that well , I'd advise to go for copper sheet , that is the easiest to work on , also the heaviest , ...unfortunately also the most expensive , I guess .
good luck , diemai
Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:03 PM
I think I will be making a wooden rattle lure of the dimensions I need to cover this area of my arsenal until I can learn more about spoon building and accumulate the appropriate equipment. This seems to be a wiser choice right now.
Posted 20 February 2010 - 01:50 AM
@ GT hunter
If you'd decide to still go for spoons , here is a link to a German site with elaborately pictured instructions , that I've once put up in there........but I don't know , whether straight linking is possible there , ...the site is named My link , the particular thread is named " Blinkerherstellung in der heimischen Werkstatt"(spoonmaking in the workshop at home) .
Here is the link : http://buse.alfahost...=6&limitstart=0
good luck for your lure projects , ..........greetz , diemai
Posted 20 February 2010 - 02:28 AM
@ GT hunter
Here is another thread named"Mausblinker" on that German site displaying a few pictures of spoons plated with tin solder to add weight at particular locations of the lure .
Seems , that these links do work out , at least for myself as a registered member of that site .
greetz , diemai
Edited by diemai, 20 February 2010 - 02:30 AM.
Posted 20 February 2010 - 05:30 AM
Large poons and 'Aeroplane spinners' (blades up to 5-6") are an old favourite here for 'Murray Cod' ,a freshwater fish that can get up to 80-100lb, but a good one would be 30-40 these days (record is about 212 lb) .
To make a spoon you just have to decide on the size and shape, make a template from cardboard or sheet plastic and cut them out- find an anvil and start lightly beating them out (' Ball Pein Hammer' is the best), start from the centre and work around to the outer edges and you will get a concave spoon, polish it up and you are right to go. As Diemai says copper and brass sheet is the easiest, staino would be a bit tougher to beat.
A general rule here - For clear water you use silver, for light mud you use brass, and for muddy water copper - I love the flash of copper through muddy water and so do Cod and Yellabelly!!
I hope I am on the right track here, there are spoons and Spoons:blink:.
If you are interested here's a bit of info on Murray Cod ---
Edited by hazmail, 20 February 2010 - 05:38 AM.
Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:37 PM
Thanks for the info guys. After looking some more info up and trying to get my head wrapped around everything here, I've decided to hold off on the idea until I can accumulate the proper equipment and some experience on lesser spoon projects first. It is blatantly clear to me that I am heavily undergunned for this project but from the responses I've read on this thread, I am confident that it is in fact doable....just at a later date. Thanks again to all for the info and advice. I will be reviewing the info on this thread constantly as i gear up for the project.