Jump to content
Propionate As Topcoat
17 replies to this topic
Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:14 PM
i recently learned that propionate makes a pretty good topcoat. anybody used it as a topcoat before? can you share your experiences?
Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:41 PM
I am interested also, as none of the other established top coats are available to me.
The main problem with propionate is the blushing problem, but this is easily overcome. I really want to know whether prop is an acceptable finish for a bass lure. I believe some major companies use it, so it cannot be that bad.
Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:25 PM
what is the blushing problem you're talking about?
also, which companies have you heard use it as a topcoat?
i don't think this top coat is compatible with plastic baits because of the acetone, i'm hoping someone has found a way around this.
Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:30 PM
I have used prop as a topcoat on a few occasions. My problem was I use nitro cellulose paints and the prop really had a strange effect on the paint jobs and had to be applied very thinly to minimize the effect but once the initial couple of dips had dried it created a protective coat and I was able to dip in a thicker solution and build up a nice coat. The blush is caused by the rapid evaporation of the acetate and is not quite as big a problem with Cellulose (virgin) thinners as this evaporates slower than acetate thinners. It was pretty good with the acrylic paints though and produced a very smooth and durable finish. To get a real thick and shining coat I had to dip 15 to 20 times. I have found also that although it dries real quickly it does actually take some time to attain true hardness and is probably in the region of a week or so before it is truly 'Rock hard'. I dont use it any more for top coating prefering nowadays 2K auto clearcoat and only use it as a sealer for bare wood which I think there is nothing to touch it as a wood sealer.
I have read on here that if the bait is hung in a container containing virgin thinners in the bottom the blush is eliminated as it slows right down the evaporation. I have not done it myself but can imagine that it does help.
Edited by philB, 13 April 2010 - 04:32 PM.
Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:46 PM
good stuff! more information the better!
how about where to get some, and how much does it cost?
would regular old Sunnyside Acetone work as the solvent?
Posted 13 April 2010 - 06:37 PM
I have read that Rapala uses this as a top coat . There is a thread about it with a link attached on Surf Talk. Check it out.
Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:45 PM
Maybe when Rapala first started building baits they topcoated them with propionate. I bought my first Rapala minnow in the early 1970's and still have it. I'm pretty sure the topcoat is not propionate. With the advances in coating chemistry during the intervening 40 years, It's hard for me to believe Rapala doesn't use some form of polyurethane topcoat nowadays.
I use propionate pellets dissolved in acetone for undercoating baits. Works nice but I just think there are tougher topcoats with better clarity than prop. To each his own!
Posted 14 April 2010 - 08:02 AM
We experimented with this as a top coat as well. I cured the blushing by doing the final dip in clear laquer. Havent had a chance to test them for durability yet.
Posted 14 April 2010 - 08:32 PM
I use propionate for coating Cedar muskie baits before priming. I did some naturals for show with just propionate and they looked real nice. I did have some blushing when I tried to do it in my garage with the heat on. It was from the high humidity of a Michigan winter floor and the heat drying it out. When done in normal humidity levels I have not had any blushing even when using it for a sealer. I Use automotive two part clear coat for my finish coats as well. I use acetone for the prop instead of Laquer Thinner. If you use it for a sealer you will want a seperate batch for using as a top coat because the color of the prop changes from all he wood soaking and it will have some junk floating in it.,
Edited by FishThanks, 14 April 2010 - 08:36 PM.
Posted 14 April 2010 - 10:17 PM
A post on this site had a link to a lure building site that appeared to be the pages of an old book. It stated that Rapala uses balsa and had a proprietary laquer dipping process that saved them from having to sand the lures. The author was stressing that the laquer was vary thin and they dipped multiple times to build up a thick plastic like layer. Im not sure of the age of the article as I cant find it anymore.
Does anyone have any experience with thinning laquer?
Posted 14 April 2010 - 11:37 PM
I can't say if the information you posted is correct or not. The major lure companies and many of the lesser know here in the U.S.A. a century ago were dip priming with white enamel and dip finishing with varnish or lacquer. It wouldn't be of much benefit to thin clear lacquer for finish dipping, unless you just enjoyed doing it.
Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:18 PM
hmm well then, what would be the downside of dipping baits in straight lacquer?
Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:38 AM
The downside to dipping in straight lacquer? The process might deposit more product than is actually needed. to achieve a durable finish.
Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:50 PM
i'm sorry but i don't really understand that... are you saying in order to get a durable enough finish, you'd need to apply many more coats than you would with some other clear coat?
Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:56 PM
No, In some instances dipping straight from the can may leave more finish on than some may desire, mostly a personal preference.
Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:20 AM
oh, so when you dip into lacquer from the can it leaves a thick coat? i don't think this would be too much of a problem for me at least. i like the thick top coat that epoxy provides, surely lacquer can't be thicker than that.
i always thought lacquer was extremely thin though, thinner than water?
are there any other issues besides the application, like yellowing or cracking or durability issues?
Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:59 AM
Couldnt you add a bunch of thin top coats with spray lacquer? I use clear lacquer spray in between each coat and prime with white lacquer. I think the lacquer builds depth in between the colors.
Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:10 PM
i don't see why you couldn't, unless there are other issues with using lacquer as a topcoat.