Number Of Bearings Question

[bluegrasslover]

Ok, this has been bothering me for some time. What does "8 bearings" actually mean? Let me clarify. If you buy a real that says 8 bearings and look at the exploded parts view, there are only 3 (at least on the reels I've seen). I've taken my reel apart for cleaning and if there were actually 8 bearings, I have no idea where they would be. Seems like every place that needs a bearing has one and 3 pretty much does it. Can someone shed some light on this? Is it just marketing crap?

Thanks,

Greg

[hazmail]

Greg- I am no expert reel fixer, but like you I pull them apart, even a new one, and grease it before first use. I agree, some claim 14 bearings (never counted them), but I notice now the high end reels (spinning) are coming back to 4-6-8 bearings, some of them are so tiny they would cost as much as the reel if you had to buy them separately - There are a few late model cars coming out here (Korean) that actually have 'PUSH BUTTON START', and people think it's something revolutionary, and it's a real sales pitch, when 'T Model Fords' probably had it in the 1920's - 'How much can a Koala bear'??? How old am I???? Pete

[Lure--Prof]

There are often 6 "extra" ball bearings that drive the bearing count, and price up on many baitcasting reels, and these bearings are neither load-bearing, nor are they necessary for a smooth functioning reel. 2 of these bearings are typically at either end of the worm gear, which helps makes the line guide go back and forth, and the other 4 bearings are inside of your handle grips.

Shimano, having always been an industry leader with their baitcasters often do not use bearings in these locations, and other manufactures attempt to use this fact as a marketing gimmick, dropping a strong hint that their brand reels are higher quality because they use more bearings and yet cost no more than a particular Shimano model.

Having more bearings in non load-bearing locations is not necessarily even a better thing. Using such reels for inshore saltwater fishing, for example, a little lack of lubrication may ruin a handle grip bearing necessitating replacement (same for the levelwind bearings), putting your reel out of commission: whereas a squeaky handle with bushings will be back in action after a quick shot of oil. Having done a lot of brackish and saltwater fishing, and the reel care that goes along with it, I'd much prefer to not have bearings in those locations.

[bluegrasslover]

There are often 6 "extra" ball bearings that drive the bearing count, and price up on many baitcasting reels, and these bearings are neither load-bearing, nor are they necessary for a smooth functioning reel. 2 of these bearings are typically at either end of the worm gear, which helps makes the line guide go back and forth, and the other 4 bearings are inside of your handle grips.

Shimano, having always been an industry leader with their baitcasters often do not use bearings in these locations, and other manufactures attempt to use this fact as a marketing gimmick, dropping a strong hint that their brand reels are higher quality because they use more bearings and yet cost no more than a particular Shimano model.

Having more bearings in non load-bearing locations is not necessarily even a better thing. Using such reels for inshore saltwater fishing, for example, a little lack of lubrication may ruin a handle grip bearing necessitating replacement (same for the levelwind bearings), putting your reel out of commission: whereas a squeaky handle with bushings will be back in action after a quick shot of oil. Having done a lot of brackish and saltwater fishing, and the reel care that goes along with it, I'd much prefer to not have bearings in those locations.

THANK YOU, Lure--Prof!!! This has been driving me crazy for some time and I knew that inside a bait caster there are only a few places where a bearing is actually needed and it certainly isn't 9, 10, or 11.

[BobP]

If it says 8, I bet 8 are there - although like L-P says, they can be extraneous. For example, my Abu Pro Max reels have 8 - 2 spool bearings, 2 level wind bearings, a pinion bearing, an instant anti-reverse bearing, and 2 bearings on the handle paddles. Are any extraneous? Depends on how you look at it, and most especially on how the reel is engineered. Abus and Shimanos, etc have different internal designs. As a general principle, a well-engineered, well maintained reel with good quality internal bearings will cast better, retrieve smoother, and last longer. Don't take bearing count out of that context! Engineering design, bearing quality, and maintenance are just as important.

Spool bearings are critical for casting smoothness and performance. The level wind bearings are either nice to have for smoothness, or important if you have a synchronous level wind system. Synchronous level winds run the line guide back and forth during the cast. Bearings are important in that design because reduced friction = less energy stolen from the cast. Having a bearing supported pinion gear is nice if retrieve smoothness is important (isn't it?). Instant anti-reverse is a standard on most reels these days, so much so that the IAR bearing is taken for granted and not even counted as a bearing by some manufacturers when advertising bearing count. We're up to 6 internal bearings so far. That total seems to me to be the optimum number for reducing the friction of moving parts inside most baitcast reels.

If there is an extraneous bearing, I nominate bearings under the paddles of a reel handle. Not only can paddles be engineered to work smoothly without them (Shimano does a great job on this), they are a detriment because they corrode and fail faster than any other reel bearing. My Abu Pro Max reels were manufactured in the late 1960's. All the paddle bearings are corroded and no longer work well. To remedy that, I substitute a modified-to-fit handle from a Shimano reel or replace the Pro Max handles with cheap Abu C3 3600 handles that don't have bearings. Now my Pro Max reels have only 6 bearings, all internal to the reel, but they all work beautifully.

[Chetco]

If it says 8, I bet 8 are there - although like L-P says, they can be extraneous. For example, my Abu Pro Max reels have 8 - 2 spool bearings, 2 level wind bearings, a pinion bearing, an instant anti-reverse bearing, and 2 bearings on the handle paddles. Are any extraneous? Depends on how you look at it, and most especially on how the reel is engineered. Abus and Shimanos, etc have different internal designs. As a general principle, a well-engineered, well maintained reel with good quality internal bearings will cast better, retrieve smoother, and last longer. Don't take bearing count out of that context! Engineering design, bearing quality, and maintenance are just as important.

Spool bearings are critical for casting smoothness and performance. The level wind bearings are either nice to have for smoothness, or important if you have a synchronous level wind system. Synchronous level winds run the line guide back and forth during the cast. Bearings are important in that design because reduced friction = less energy stolen from the cast. Having a bearing supported pinion gear is nice if retrieve smoothness is important (isn't it?). Instant anti-reverse is a standard on most reels these days, so much so that the IAR bearing is taken for granted and not even counted as a bearing by some manufacturers when advertising bearing count. We're up to 6 internal bearings so far. That total seems to me to be the optimum number for reducing the friction of moving parts inside most baitcast reels.

If there is an extraneous bearing, I nominate bearings under the paddles of a reel handle. Not only can paddles be engineered to work smoothly without them (Shimano does a great job on this), they are a detriment because they corrode and fail faster than any other reel bearing. My Abu Pro Max reels were manufactured in the late 1960's. All the paddle bearings are corroded and no longer work well. To remedy that, I substitute a modified-to-fit handle from a Shimano reel or replace the Pro Max handles with cheap Abu C3 3600 handles that don't have bearings. Now my Pro Max reels have only 6 bearings, all internal to the reel, but they all work beautifully.

[Chetco]

If it says 8, I bet 8 are there - although like L-P says, they can be extraneous. For example, my Abu Pro Max reels have 8 - 2 spool bearings, 2 level wind bearings, a pinion bearing, an instant anti-reverse bearing, and 2 bearings on the handle paddles. Are any extraneous? Depends on how you look at it, and most especially on how the reel is engineered. Abus and Shimanos, etc have different internal designs. As a general principle, a well-engineered, well maintained reel with good quality internal bearings will cast better, retrieve smoother, and last longer. Don't take bearing count out of that context! Engineering design, bearing quality, and maintenance are just as important.

Spool bearings are critical for casting smoothness and performance. The level wind bearings are either nice to have for smoothness, or important if you have a synchronous level wind system. Synchronous level winds run the line guide back and forth during the cast. Bearings are important in that design because reduced friction = less energy stolen from the cast. Having a bearing supported pinion gear is nice if retrieve smoothness is important (isn't it?). Instant anti-reverse is a standard on most reels these days, so much so that the IAR bearing is taken for granted and not even counted as a bearing by some manufacturers when advertising bearing count. We're up to 6 internal bearings so far. That total seems to me to be the optimum number for reducing the friction of moving parts inside most baitcast reels.

If there is an extraneous bearing, I nominate bearings under the paddles of a reel handle. Not only can paddles be engineered to work smoothly without them (Shimano does a great job on this), they are a detriment because they corrode and fail faster than any other reel bearing. My Abu Pro Max reels were manufactured in the late 1960's. All the paddle bearings are corroded and no longer work well. To remedy that, I substitute a modified-to-fit handle from a Shimano reel or replace the Pro Max handles with cheap Abu C3 3600 handles that don't have bearings. Now my Pro Max reels have only 6 bearings, all internal to the reel, but they all work beautifully.

[Chetco]

All the bearing if not oiled will fail. ASTM bearing google great info

[Skeeter]

Ok, this has been bothering me for some time. What does "8 bearings" actually mean? Let me clarify. If you buy a real that says 8 bearings and look at the exploded parts view, there are only 3 (at least on the reels I've seen). I've taken my reel apart for cleaning and if there were actually 8 bearings, I have no idea where they would be. Seems like every place that needs a bearing has one and 3 pretty much does it. Can someone shed some light on this? Is it just marketing crap?

Thanks,

Greg

Greg,

The number of bearings in a reel is the number of balls within the bearing. Not the number of bearing sets in the reel.

Skeeter

[Oldfart9999]

If the bearings are of poor quality or the reel is not made with any precision then the bearing count doesn't matter. All you need are 5 bearings, 2 on the spool, the most obvious, the anti-reverse, the pinion, and 1 on the end of the spool at the tension adjustment. Most of the reel manufacturers use high quality bearings on their higher end reels, some go to a lower quality bearing as the price is reduced, some use a high quality bearing on a reel that is not built with any precision "loose" or does not line up well when assembled, a waste of good bearings. If you have ball bearings in your handle paddles then they need lubrication also, there is really no reason for them to freeze up except neglet. Todays better reels respond well to maintence, follow the owners manual and use the best lubrication you can buy. Do not use WD40, it is not a lubricant. Depending on use most reels should be cleaned at least once a year and the bearings lubed several times a year, specially if the reels get dunked or caught in the rain. I have several older Quatum Irons, IR3s & IR4s, they are a 3 bearing reel that I use to throw deep cranks, they throw a Norman or Strike King as well as any of the new reels, they are torn down and cleaned in a jewlery cleaner with paint thinner every year and the bearins given a drop of Hot Sauce 2 or 3 times during the year. These reels still have their original bearings, I use Hot Sauce grease on the gears, a mix of oil & grease on the level wind and bushings, & a drop or 2 on the handles, I just can't see replacing a reel that works just as well as anything offered today just to get a higher bearing count.

Rodney

Edited February 9, 2012 by Oldfart9999

[smallmouthaholic]

If the bearings are of poor quality or the reel is not made with any precision then the bearing count doesn't matter.

...they are torn down and cleaned in a jewlery cleaner with paint thinner every year and the bearins given a drop of Hot Sauce 2 or 3 times during the year.

Rodney

Amen on your 1st sentence. I warned a buddy about the Okuma reels w/ all their bearings he purchased about 10 years ago. He threw them both in a trashcan within 6 months of purchase They had too much slop and wobble

Try M.E.K. in a small ,glass enclosed jar to clean your bearings.( use M.E.K. outside or in an exhaust booth) Hotsauce binds to the metal-switch to ardent reel butter bearing oil and you'll really notice a difference in long term smoothness.

[Oldfart9999]

I blow the bearings out with low air pressure and let them sit for a while. Hot Sauce binds with the metal(stainless or regular steel) in the bearings, but it also lubricates. Reel Butter is a fine product also, as is what you are able to get from other manufacturers, but the best may be Rocket Fuel, it comes in several different grades and is used most if not all who compete in casting contests.

Rodney

[BobP]

Different folks, different strokes regarding bearing oils. I use Yellow Rocket Fuel and like it. They also make Red Rocket Fuel for competition casting. But it is generally thought to be too low in viscosity for use in a real fishing reel. If the oil is too light, it will migrate out of the bearing too quickly and you will lose lubrication too soon. I also like the Reel Butter bearing oil. There's also a general purpose Reel Butter reel oil, so don't confuse the two. As for Quantum Hot Sauce - it has very good qualities as far as viscosity stability, lubrication, etc but I can't stand the damned red dye they put in it. Migrates all over the inside of a reel. Yuck!

When soaking old oil out of a bearing, the lower the viscosity of the solvent you use, the faster it will penetrate the bearing and clean it. I shoot ether-based aerosol starting fluid into a shot glass and soak bearings in it. A piece of cardboard over the glass keeps the ether from evaporating too quickly.

[Oldfart9999]

By putting just 1 drop of oil on each bearing, all they really need, you don't have the problem of oil being slung out of the bearings. You don't need much grease either, just enough to coat gears and sliging parts, anymore can cause problems. Extra grease or oil holds dirt and cause premature wear because you are making a fine lapping compound. Oil or grease don't attract dirt, but they do hold it.

Rodney

[BobP]

Greg - About finding bearings in a reel. Did you really take the reel completely apart down to the last screw? For instance, there are often bearings at the ends of the worm gear inside the levelwind tube. There is often a bearing at the end of the handle drive shaft where it fits into the right side of the frame. The anti-reverse bearing is also counted as a bearing and is trapped inside the right side cover. Some reels have bearings inside the paddles on the handle. The pinion drive is often surrounded by a pressed-in ball bearing in the right side of the reel frame. Some Shimano reels have a 3rd axle bearing trapped on the right side of the spool shaft. You can't take all of these bearings out of the reel, some are press-fitted, some are loose. But they are real ball bearings and should be listed on the parts diagram as bearings if there is a listing beside the diagram.

[Grey Ghost]

It has been said previously in these reply's, but could be said again. A good sales tactic is to say a high number of bearings, but that doesn't necessarily make it a high end reel. Lower cost reels with say 8 bearings vs. a higher cost reel with 3 bearings make the customer feel better for buying more bearings at a lower price. Problem is, those lower cost reels a lot of time have lower quality bearings that wear down faster or are just not as smooth.

[Braided Line]

Bluegrasslover:

You said," I`ve taken my reel apart for cleaning."

What reel are you talking about? Make/model # . That way we`re all talking oranges to oranges.

If you can post that specific information, the answers should be spot on.