Starting A Business

[CTBASS56]

This may be a loaded question, but here goes....

Is it conceivable to start a small business selling hand pours/injection baits via the internet a few months after you have made your first bait? >take everything out of the equation except for making baits- ie. forget the website, forget money,etc.

my point is this....Before I came a career firefighter (10 months ago) I always wanted a job in the fishing industry. I worked for a tackle company where my job was to make assorted spinnerbaits, jigs, chatterbaits, etc. As a firefighter my schedule allows me to continue to pursue that dream as I work 24 hr shifts, with 72 hrs off. To make a long story short, I am looking to begin pouring my first baits in the next few months. In a perfect world, I would like to have enough knowledge and practice to get my small business up and running by December/January of this coming year. Is that a practical goal or am I being unrealistic.

Please feel free to be brutally honest with any comments...I am looking for valuable input from those with experience in the field. Thank you very much!!!

[Stevenwxly]

This may be a loaded question, but here goes....

Is it conceivable to start a small business selling hand pours/injection baits via the internet a few months after you have made your first bait? >take everything out of the equation except for making baits- ie. forget the website, forget money,etc.

my point is this....Before I came a career firefighter (10 months ago) I always wanted a job in the fishing industry. I worked for a tackle company where my job was to make assorted spinnerbaits, jigs, chatterbaits, etc. As a firefighter my schedule allows me to continue to pursue that dream as I work 24 hr shifts, with 72 hrs off. To make a long story short, I am looking to begin pouring my first baits in the next few months. In a perfect world, I would like to have enough knowledge and practice to get my small business up and running by December/January of this coming year. Is that a practical goal or am I being unrealistic.

Please feel free to be brutally honest with any comments...I am looking for valuable input from those with experience in the field. Thank you very much!!!

Hello Me Amigo,

I began making baits similar to what you are doing perhaps 30 years ago....then gave it up and taught public school for many years.

I just retired from teaching a year or so back and am now engaged in making handmade wood lures......topwaters, a few crank baits, jerk baits...that sort of thing.

I recently had the good furtune to purchase about 5,000 wood lure blanks from a retiring friend who manufactured them for all the Big Boy manufacturers....did you know almost all of them did that...contracted that work out to smaller guys ????

Anyway I have lots of wood lure blanks...some already factory painted. And the others I paint myself....and am getting pretty good at painting them too.

I do not possess a whole lot of artistic talent....but I can make a good looking - good selling - wood lure or two.

I also have a pretty nice little 'wood shop' with a nice lathe, and all the rest of the wood working equip. I need to manufacture the wood blanks.

I started selling them on Ebay about six weeks ago, and have been averaging selling about $ 100.00 of the lures per week for that time frame. So I am not getting rich or even able to support myself on that $ 400 a month. But I also get social security, and buy and sell a few boats, motors, and trailers - so I get by - pretty good.

Here is my take on what you want to do.....

There are a lot of really good lure makers making wood lures and plugs....some make them with automated machines,...some make them all by hand.

Also there lots, and lots, and lots of folks who are making soft baits and hard spinner baits....mostly at home in their spare time...and they mostly are also selling these either in their local area or online.

I have an acquaintence.....another guy who makes fishing lures. He makes mostly spinners, and hard metal type lures. He sets up and sells at several of the local flea markets in this area or Southwest Missouri - near Springfield.

He is starving to death......I have several of his lures....they look like crap, and most of them won't catch any fish. He has absolutely no talent for this at all......his lures look like they were made by 4th graders.

I sold him about 50 of my wood blanks and then saw what he made with them....and they all were made incorrectly and his paint schemes again.....looked like elementary school kids have made them....or perhaps he had his dog paint them- I don't know.

So this business takes lots of savvy, and some God given talent to make it.

And again I am not exactly "making it" with my lures. The extra money I get from them - helps out....but I would probably be at our local "Souls Harbor or the Salvation Army" - if I did not have a pretty good check coming in from the US Govt. with my social security.

My point is that there is a lot of competition......unless you are a very talented artist whose baits look way better than most factory-made - manufactured lures. Those few guys who are very talented in this field are making money......the average guy who just makes up a few lures.....that will catch fish....but whose lures are nothing special .....all have "day jobs" to pay the bills.

I think you will find that you can always make a few bucks by making and selling lures...but I think your overhead.....lure molds, equipment, and such might cost you more than you would sell....unless like I explained above - you get very good at your craft.

Steve - Little Bit Lures - Greenfield, MO

PS -

I live about 40 miles from the Bass Pro Shop in Springfield, MO. They have the big store and also a discount annex store - where they are selling the soft plastic baits by the pound @ $ 5.00 a lb.

They have loads of them. I have bought some....and have paid perhaps about 3 or 4 cents for a nice soft bait lure body....then added my own hooks and such.

You (on the other hand ) spend a lot of time making up soft baits, but you have to get perhaps $ 2 to 3.00 each for them when you sell them

......(in our area....that just is not going to happen- because everyone knows that they can go to Bass Pro Shop and buy them for pennies.)

I might suggest that you investigate making handmade wood lures - instead....and then make the ones used for saltwater use...if they are good- you can command some real nice $$$$ for them.

((( I am not trying to sell any of my lures here.....merely just telling this fellow who I am - so he can check me out - if he desires ))))

Edited April 29, 2010 by Stevenwxly

[TBaits]

After putting a pencil to everything, it is very hard to make any money with plastics I'm finding. Injection molds are expensive even for 1 cavity, so imagine how many you would have to have to do any kind of production. How many baits would you have to sell just to pay for the mold? You really have to look at it very detailed and see how much time you have into them too. I have decided to just do it as a hobby and not expect to make any money (as in profit). I have spent almost $1k since February and no telling how much time I have involved, so it would take me forever to start making any money (profit).

Just my .02

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Starting a business is tough... You have to do more than just make good baits. There are guys doing it part time and making a few dollars. In my opinion a lot of them make mediocre baits, or the same bait as everybody else. The thing is they work at the whole business. They make sure they have some baits on hand in all colors they produce and more of the more popular colors. They communicate with customers when its going to take time to fill a large order. They promote. They sell. They give away samples to local guides, pros, clubs, tackleshops, etc.

They work at it as a job and give it their best honest effort.

One of my personal pet peeves about buying from hobby makers is that it is just that. A hobby to them. As a result they have a "when I get around to it" or "when I feel like it" attitude. I suppose that's fine if you are only selling to a couple buddies and they come over to your house to drink a beer and help you pour, but its not fine when you offer your product to the general public. If its going to take you six months to fill an order you are going to have a lot of one time buyers. If you are prepared to bust your hump when you get a big order. Get it out as you get it ready, and communicate with your clientelle you can do just fine.

Example:

Venom makes a bait I like. Its very similar to a bait made by a smaller tackle maker. I actually happen to like the one by the smaller tackle maker slightly better. Nothing major, but there are some tiny little things that I like better. I've ordered from the small guy twice. The first time it took him a month to complete my order, but he sent it out in a couple shipments as he completed it. I was able to fish the baits I wanted while they were still hot. The second time it took him three months to complete my order. Some things were not exactly what I ordered, and he not only didn't tell me what was going on he didn't respond to messages or calls from me. I was about to turn him in to his state's attorney general for fraud when my order finally did arrive.

I have also ordered directly from Venom. Orders are process quickly. They make sure I get any available discounts, and large orders are processed quickly also. They communicate with me same do from e-mail and the only time I ever called them they made me feel like my business was important. I buy the bait I like from Venom and haven't bothered to visit that other guys website in a couple years now.

If the two baits were exactly identical and the same price I would order from the smaller guy prefferentially if he took the effort to take care of me as a customer.

The thing is if you communicate with your customers. Bust your butt to fill orders quickly when you get them, and you approach it like a real job with a good work ethic, not as a hobby you can absolutely make a few dollars making baits. The business side of it is all just math. Do the math and figure out what will work to make you money.

If your turn around time to produce a hundred baits is going to be 3 days, then advertise "Most orders ship within seven (7) days." That way you can have an off day, and emergency day, etc, and still take care of your customers, and most time you can make them feel good when their order ships sooner.

[GB GONE]

Bottom line to me is if you make a good quality product, they will come. I have a loooooong wait time for some stuff but guys are willing to wait as they know what they are going to get. Be your own worst critic and you'll be fine.

Remember when guys were waiting months for Basstrix baits and paying huge sums to get them?

Make a fish catching bait and tehy will come. All the other things will fall into place!

Jim

[TBaits]

Bob,

I guess I'm not your average "hobby" bait maker then. I got an order the first of last week for over 100 baits and shipped them out Saturday. I have 1 injector and that particular bait I have a 1 cavity mold. I busted my a** to get them done for him and there were 6 different colors involved. He probably got 5 emails last week including 2 with shipping times and tracking number. I have done that a couple more times too with other clients. I did 60 hand-dipped tubes in 3 colors and hand-split the tails one weekend too.

My point is trying to make any money out of it is VERY hard. I know how to run a business, I have owned two in the past. 1 I had for 10 yrs and the other for 7 yrs.

I take great care of my customers and produce a fine product in a short amount of time, BUT when I put a pencil to it, it just doesn't make much money.

I would like to know how many on here actually make a "profit" after it is all said and done. I love doing it, but I know I'm not going to get rich off of it. I will always take care of my clients though and they are my main priority. I give up a lot of time with family on the weekends and evenings to do it, and for that, I need to make some money.

[Stevenwxly]

CTBass56,

Looks like you have gotten some good advice from a few guys who "have been there and done that".

I think I would read and reread what they are saying, and then take a good hard look at what you want to do.

As I think I tried to get across in my reply to you and these other guys seem to concur..... if your handmade lures are great - you should do OK....maybe even better than OK.

But on the other hand, if your stuff is just so-so, or not quite up to par with your competitors in quality, price, customer service, ...... just everything. Then it might not work out for you so well.

In any case....good luck with everything. I hope it works well for you. Steve

...........................................................................................................................................................

Bob,

I guess I'm not your average "hobby" bait maker then. I got an order the first of last week for over 100 baits and shipped them out Saturday. I have 1 injector and that particular bait I have a 1 cavity mold. I busted my a** to get them done for him and there were 6 different colors involved. He probably got 5 emails last week including 2 with shipping times and tracking number. I have done that a couple more times too with other clients. I did 60 hand-dipped tubes in 3 colors and hand-split the tails one weekend too.

My point is trying to make any money out of it is VERY hard. I know how to run a business, I have owned two in the past. 1 I had for 10 yrs and the other for 7 yrs.

I take great care of my customers and produce a fine product in a short amount of time, BUT when I put a pencil to it, it just doesn't make much money.

I would like to know how many on here actually make a "profit" after it is all said and done. I love doing it, but I know I'm not going to get rich off of it. I will always take care of my clients though and they are my main priority. I give up a lot of time with family on the weekends and evenings to do it, and for that, I need to make some money.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Bob,

I guess I'm not your average "hobby" bait maker then. I got an order the first of last week for over 100 baits and shipped them out Saturday. I have 1 injector and that particular bait I have a 1 cavity mold. I busted my a** to get them done for him and there were 6 different colors involved. He probably got 5 emails last week including 2 with shipping times and tracking number. I have done that a couple more times too with other clients. I did 60 hand-dipped tubes in 3 colors and hand-split the tails one weekend too.

My point is trying to make any money out of it is VERY hard. I know how to run a business, I have owned two in the past. 1 I had for 10 yrs and the other for 7 yrs.

I take great care of my customers and produce a fine product in a short amount of time, BUT when I put a pencil to it, it just doesn't make much money.

I would like to know how many on here actually make a "profit" after it is all said and done. I love doing it, but I know I'm not going to get rich off of it. I will always take care of my clients though and they are my main priority. I give up a lot of time with family on the weekends and evenings to do it, and for that, I need to make some money.

Sorry, wasn't intending to be disparaging to anybody in particular. Certainly not anybody in this thread. Just saying that taking care of your clients (as you obviously do) is your number one priority when you start a business. I have been a communcations contractor since 1993 (17 years as a business owner), and my very first client is still a client. There have been a couple times I couldn't take care of them quickly, but I always let them know and let them know when I could take care of them. In addition to that I grew up in a business family. Literally did my home work in the stock room of our grocery store and worked my way through college managing our hardware store. I wouldn't say I KNOW how to run a business, but I have some good hints about how it might work. When I was little and my grandmother would send me birthday or Christmas money I didn't blow it like most kids. I bought merchandise to put on the shelves of our grocery store. I think I brokered my first box of candy bars at about age 4. That would give me about 40 years experience in business. LOL.

The rest is just math. Do the math. Figure out how to buy materials, make molds, pour baits efficiently, and where you need to price your product to make money. Then take care of your clients.

I might add that taking care of your clients doesn't mean kissing their butt though. It means making solid promises at a price you can live with and living up to your promises. And remember a person is not a client until you and they both agree to do business with each other. If they want you to sell baits at a loss and make it up in volume they should not even be considered a potential client. They are a potential con man.

There is one thing though, and I have had to bite the bullet more times than I care to think on this one. If you make a mistake and promise somebody something at a fixed price and after taking their money realize you made a mistake, its not their fault. Its not somebody else's fault. Its your fault. Live up to it. Yes you will lose money on it, but if its your mistake it is not fair to ask anybody else to make up for your mistake. In the long run it will gain you a hundred times more than it cost you. AND TELL THEM YOU MADE A MISTAKE AND WHAT IT WILL COST NEXT TIME. There are a few jerks and idiots out there who will try and use you admitting to a mistake against you, but you don't want them as long term clients anyway.

I would add one little thing... eventually depending on what you do you will want to learn to classify potential clients. A lot of that comes with experience. Sometimes costly experience. By classify I mean learn to tell which callers are mostly like to spend money with you, and in the bait business which freebies are likely to result in future sales.

None of it is that simple, but run your business well, put a portion of your profits back into more molds, more injectors, more inventory, or whatever makes you more efficient at both production and taking care of your clients and you should be able to make a few dollars. It is possible. As with any business its not easy. Its work.

As a side note: I started my contracting company in 1993. I made a few dollars here and there, but I probably didn't start to MAKE decent money until about 1999 or 2000. That's right. That's right. It took me seven years to go from making a few dollars to making decent money. A lot of businesses are like that. Its the main reason in my opinion why so many businesses fail. People just are not prepared for the time it takes to build a business, gain real world experience, learn to handle clients, learn to be efficient at what they do, and build a reputation.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Bob La Londe

[GB GONE]

Amen!!!! A lot of guys/companies think they can just buy hand injectors, molds and BAM... Business!! It takes years to build up clients and a good reputation. Lots of marketing and lots of LUCK! Sure, some companies get some orders right away but little by little, the customer leaves for another upstart product if the first upstart cannot give the customer what they need. Many of my customers have been with me since I started selling because I was sure I had the consistency in my products long before they went into the market. You also have to be willing to spend lots of time improving what you have... Colors, bait styles, website, etc.. Nothing can be stagnant or else the angler may just go somewhere else....

Bob makes a very good point in being honest with your customer and with yourself about what you are willing to do. I finally just opened my website for orders in 2010 becuase I had previous years customers that wanted product. The repeat customers always come first for me. I turned away hundreds of orders during the past few months but many waited for me to reopen based on the reputation of the baits.

I have seen MANY come and even more go. Most will go but if you persist and take Bob's advice, you are certain to be able to make a nickel or 2!!!

I say go for it and give it a run!!!!!!!!!!

Jim

[BassMadness]

Hey CTBASS56,

I'm kinda in the same boat you are.... I'm a fireman and work 48 on and 96 off...its a rough life aint it? Ive always wanted to own a tackle company and have dabbled in swim baits for a while and wanted to try plastics. Initially it sounds easy, buy or make a mold, get some rubber, add color, melt it, pour it, done! ( I wish). Been reading posts on here about plastics for about 4 days now and there is a lot more to it. Just wanted to say thanks to all the guys that give advise here. CTBASS56, sounds like you have a big leg up being involved in lure industry already.

[GB GONE]

PS I sell to some of the Elite Series Pros also and they will call in the evening and ask "Can you get me 200 swimbaits out in the morning to this hotel?"

Other customers can do the same for sure. Certainly you can say no but if you suck it up and do a few, you will get more calls and more business from the guys that actually have the money to support your business.

Jim

[carolinamike]

Man, you've received some good advice. Bob and Jim both have laid out a lot of words of wisdom. But I will say this, as someone that makes plastic for a living, don't get discouraged. If you want to play with it, and if you use good common sense and treat people like you would want to be treated, you can make some money at it. But let me warn you now, and Jim will probably agree with this, you will almost never get fully paid for your time that you put into your product doing hand pours or hand injection. It takes a lot of molds and a lot of dedication to produce a large amount of baits by hand and to do it any other way takes a lot of money and a real good wife. But if you target Mom&Pop stores, start out experimenting with your products by giving samples to friends to fish, then you'll get an idea of the interest in your product. I was told a long time ago there was no way I could make a living selling plastic baits. I admit, some days I agree, but when all is said and done, it's more or less left up to your determination. Read advice, listen to advice and store advice in your head, so if you do decide to start up a small bait thing you can always keep these things in mind when approaching customers. From my experience over the years I've found that most people that's in the fishing business, started out small, and you've got to start somewhere. We're working with two companies this year that have went from hand pour to injection, they finally figured the time thing out. If things get to going that good for you, then there will come a time that it's more profitable for someone with the know how and the equipment to produce your baits, that way you concentrate on marketing and sales. Most people start out playing around doing hand pours, they catch a fish or two off of their baits, they tell a buddy, he wants a couple of baits, he tells a buddy and so on. Hand pouring becomes addictive real quick. Even with the equipment that I have, and the thousands of baits that we make a day, I am still fascinated that I can make something that you can go out and catch a fish on. I've never lost this thrill since day one. So I say try it. It's the time of the year when people are getting their income tax money back and it's really not that expensive. Start out playing with your own stuff and see where it goes from there. You just might be able to fill a need in the fishing industry one day, who knows.

[DDSBYDAY]

One other thing that needs to be mentioned is help. Once you cross over to the buisness world you have employees to protect. In my case heavy metals (hazardous), pointy hooks and and potential law suits for years. I am a company of 1. I only do the plastics as a side note. I have people that are jobless and willing to help but with the small profit margin (10% excise tax-retailer 40%--That leaves 50% minus supplies and time) I have to do it myself. Add 1 employee and the buisness taxes shut you down. I am sure that molten plastic would require strict ventilation, hazard gear and more goverment inspections and reviews and fees than you can imagine. Like I said, I am a company of 1. I won't quit my day job but I love the other one.

[CTBASS56]

WOW! I am glad I decided to post the question. I have received a lot of input from you guys and it is much appreciated. What a great place to quicken the learning curve. It is great to hear from people with similar interests who have been doing this for some time and are willing to share valuable information.

You guys are truly wetting my whistle and adding fuel to my fire in my dream to one day own a small tackle company!!!!

One thing that I think your all over looking however....I do not own any molds, plastisol, glitter, dye, or equipment. I HAVEN'T EVEN MADE MY FIRST BAIT YET!!!!!

That said, I hope I did not mislead you into thinking that I was at that stage already. Additionally, I hope you dont feel you have wasted your time in responding to my question because that was some great advice. I have already added your responses to my "favorites" page for future reference.

That said, now that you truly understand my goal, do you feel it would be better for me to begin this process using hand pours or injection??

Again, thank you so much for your time and advice. I will always appreciate it. Thanks!

[bass100]

From what you said you just made your first bait a couple of months ago. I would slow down and focus more on getting bait making experience. If you can't make baits with consistent quality and made in a timely manner (like the other guys that have been doing this for years) then you will set your self up for failure. It is really hard to get a customer to take a chance on your product but once you get them to buy it is even harder to keep them. So put yourself in a position so that when you do get some customers to buy you will be able to keep them coming back because once they leave you won't get them back and if you are inexperienced in your bait making skills then it will show.

[GB GONE]

That said, now that you truly understand my goal, do you feel it would be better for me to begin this process using hand pours or injection??

I know some of you guys are going to fall over, but I am going to say....hand injection! The learning curve on hand pouring is waaaay longer and can cause you to loose the faith quick. Hand injection will give you immediate positive feedback.

I really think that should not be tah big of an issue to you as you can even make some plaster of paris molds to hand pour while hand injecting. The larger issues are getting your color recipes down, work space issues, bait styles to choose, etc....

Soooo many choices, so little time!!!!

Jim

PS Mike has great advice and has really taken things to the level many want to go. As he said, if you keep pushing forward and doing the right things, you can make some money and have a GREAT time doing all this. On a side note, I have helped design and test a few baits in my time as well. Helps add to the piggy bank a bit and gives you a world of insight into the mold makers head also...