15 replies to this topic
Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:06 AM
Alright I think that is how you spell it, I have asked before about what is going wrong with my paint sodo u think it could be the humidity in the basment? About two months ago I started painting and dipping clearcoat crankbaits, I did 30 of them ordered more same company and evrything still the same but when I dipped in clearcoat it pulled the paint in and bubbled in places. So now I have changed bait company, sand the bait whip down with alcohol, and clearcoat did good a week ago had to buy a new airbrush and now the same problem. Anyone out there that can help, this is the only thing that I can think of besides just givin up and not do it any more, would a dehumidifier work and fix the problem? Thanks in advance bc I always get great advice here I am so glad I found this site or I would still be in the stone ages with this!
Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:42 AM
Did the problem re-start at the same time as you started using the new airbrush?
I ask this because new brushes are greased up and require cleaning out, before use. This could well be your problem, traces of oil getting onto your lure body with the paint.
Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:26 PM
No it started before the old one stoped working. I had about two-three weeks I did not paint anything waitin on blanks to come in that is when the temp went from in the 60s to high 70s now.thanks for ur response any other ideals anyone can thank of to help would be greatful forever if I can figure this out.
Posted 29 April 2010 - 01:07 PM
Sorry for your frustration! I think problems come from very specific coatings, application techniques, and environmental factors- so it's impossible to give long-distance diagnosis that isn't just a shot in the dark. Clear coats like Dick Nite (DN) contain active solvents. If they remain wet too long on the bait, they will lift and wrinkle paint. What often happens is the clearcoat is applied too thick or collects on a low section of the bait. It skins over but there is still wet solvent sloshing around under the skin - bingo! paint lifting and wrinkling.
I see endless TU queries about mixing various undercoats/waterproofers/adhesion promoters/primers/paints/clearcoats. Man, it gives me a headache! NOBODY can say whether a combo is chemically compatible until they've tried it. And there are thousands of possible combos. One thing I learned from experience - keep it simple because the more coatings you throw in the mix, the greater the chance that you will screw up or the coatings will not be compatible. On plastic baits, I shoot clean plastic with water based acrylic paint, dip it once in DN and hanging it to dry. Simple. Works perfect. Gives a durable finish. In the garage, with widely variable temp and humidity.
Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:44 PM
Can't really speak to your specific problem, but I live in East Texas where we have plenty of humidity (90% is pretty common) and I'm not experiencing the problems your having. I do my baits pretty much the same way as BobP does. Shooting Createx over plastic baits that have been scuffed with light grit sandpaper, washed in liquid dish washing soap in water as hot as I can stand it, dried by blowing the water off with clean air and then running a heat gun set on low over it, then painted and clear coated with DN. As BobP said, there are thousands of different combinations and any number of them can go wrong. Try to find something that works and is simple as possible. Something as simple as touching the bait with bare hands can transfer oil onto the bait and wreck a perfectly good paint job.
Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:01 PM
alright so what do I do to dry it faster? any ideal as to why the first I painted did good with no prep at all? Thanks for the input!
Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:04 PM
Is the dicks night really good? I have been using a laquer clearcoat right now I am willing to try anything! Thanks agian to all that have replied dont know where I would be in this fight with out all of your help!
Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:58 PM
Dick Nite is in my estimation a top quality top coat. It does present a whole new set of problems if you aren't prepared for them. Most of which are storage related. If the DN is exposed to moisture it will start the curing process in the container in which it's stored and you will lose the whole lot. One way around this is to tap the unopened container it's shipped in with a sheet metal screw and only draw out what is needed to brush the coating onto your lures. To do this you will need to turn the can upside down and poke a small hole into the side at what is now the top. (turned back right side up it will be in the bottom on the side) The hole needs to be small enough that a sheet metal screw will just barely start. This only works for brushing DN. If you want to dip it then you will need to have a smaller jar to decant enough of the DN into that will allow the body of a bait to be completely submersed into the top coat. The dipping jar needs to be made of glass and needs to be as narrow as possible to avoid having a large surface area. The larger the surface area the more chance of it becoming contaminated with moisture. You will also need a jar that is capable of being sealed well. Another thing you will need to dip lures in DN is a product called Bloxygen. It is a dry gas that is heavier than air and will settle down to the surface of the DN thus blocking moisture laden air from reaching it.
Something I would consider doing before trying to learn how to apply and store DN is seeing what I could do to solve the problem in the first place. I would try top coating with Devcon 2 Ton epoxy before trying to master another learning curve with the DN. D2T, being an epoxy, won't react with undercoatings the way solvent based products do. And DN is a solvent based product. If you use the D2T and don't have any adverse effects then your problem could very well be an incompatibility issue. One thing about the water based paints is that they need to be thoroughly dried before applying your top coat. Createx, in particular, needs to be heat set so it cross links on a molecular level to achieve a durable coating. I heat set each coat before moving on to the next. Not each color, but each "coat".
If you decide to try the D2T be sure to get the 30 minute type. Now that doesn't mean you have 30 minutes to work with it. You will only have enough time to coat 2, maybe 3, lures before it becomes to stiff to apply.
Let us know what you try and how it works. Good luck.
Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:45 AM
I have just re-read the original thread, where you asked the question. Here is the link for anyone else who would like to read it: http://www.tackleund..._1
LKN4DDB mentioned heat setting in post No6, but you did not respond to the heat setting idea. Createx paint was designed for TEE shirts and requires heat setting with a hot hair dryer, preferably after every single coat of createx. This causes some kind of cross linking of the paint molecules and is absolutely necessary. Here is a link to a post about heat setting: http://www.tackleund...__fromsearch__1 read the entire thread but particularly post No10.
The most likely problem is a reaction between your base coat and the lacquer top coat, as mentioned by KcDano. If you read the instructions on the can, it will probably be fast drying (15 minutes between coats) but it will also say 2 days to cure. When asked, you told us the base coat was a cheap spray can, but you did not say what type of paint or the manufacturer. Someone here is bound to have used that particular paint before and would be able to give their experiences.
If the heat setting and allowing the base coat to dry thoroughly does not work, then I think you should switch to something more reliable, like D2T. I think it is important for you to get some successful baits out before this problem spoils the whole game for you.
Posted 30 April 2010 - 06:30 AM
Hey I agree totally about gettin some good baits out, so here goes I was using the cheep white spray paint from wm keep goin more expensive to now trin rustolem primmer for plastics, the heat sitting I have been doin after every coat to ensure propper seating, I have been lettin my base painted baits set for three to four days to make sure they where cured, I have even went as far as taking a primed bait and dippin it to see if the reaction is done with the base and btw out of two baits one did it one did not. The more I have been thinkin about it I am goin to try and prep my hands before I take the tape off of bill to dip I might b gettin into somethin and holdin it takin the tape off the oil or what ever is on my hands messin it up. Right now I have probally 20-30 baits that has to be stripped repainted and redone because of this. But thank all of u!
Posted 30 April 2010 - 06:59 AM
Well, I am so sorry that we have not isolated the problem for you. What is important, is when you finally nail the problem, to report back with the solution, so that we can all learn. TU gets a lot of these type of threads, but not all of them report back with the solution. Good luck and get some out.
Posted 30 April 2010 - 07:52 AM
Will do and if anyone else has any ideals just put them out there and I will try them thanks to everyone for the help!
Posted 30 April 2010 - 02:30 PM
I don't use aerosol paints - first, you never know what solvents they contain and how those solvents will react with other coatings - especially solvent based clear coats. If you are having 50% success using the spray white paint, you're still in Hurt City. The other reason is I hate the chemical stink many of them leave on a bait, even after they dry. One bait prepped with an automotive primer will smell up a whole 3700 box of crankbaits.
My question is - why use the spray on white paint at all? In my experience, white water based acrylic paint sprayed through your airbrush works well as a color basecoat. And it just takes a minute to dry it with a hair dryer, which I do on ALL the acrylic paint I spray on a lure.
Like RG, I like the Dick Nite moisture cured polyurethane as a topcoat, especially on plastic baits. It forms a thin, slick, "factory look" finish that's very durable. It seems to soak into and through acrylic paint to form a good bond with the underlying plastic surface. Perfect? No. It needs special measures to keep it from curing in its storage container. The best idea to come along with Dick Nite is to buy a can of Bloxygen aerosol finish preserver. Bloxygen's argon/nitrogen gas prevents the surface of the Dick Nite in your storage container from contacting humidity-laden ambient air, and it does a great job of keeping the finish in a liquid state.
You need a finishing regimen that works reliably if you are painting a bunch of plastic baits. I hope you find a combo that works 100% of the time. Acrylic paint + Dick Nite is the combo that works best for me. Plus it's WAY faster than what you are doing now.
Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:46 PM
Alright I am tring something new I bought some spray polyurethane that I am spraying on to make a small berrier then dipping in the laquier I will let you all know how it works in the next few days.
Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:46 PM
Alright guys I got a pic on here of one I got done so far so good on the paint not wrinkling let me know what you all thisk it is in the gallery!
Posted 06 May 2010 - 11:07 AM
The lure looks great.
Looks like you've found a system that works for you.
For the PVC lures I make, I do a combination of rattle can primer, Createx/AutoAire paints, and water borne urethane top coat.
I've found that heat setting everything, starting with the primer, eliminates problems. It only takes an extra minute, but I'm sure all the solvent is gone, and then I let it sit overnight before I start the paint scheme.
For plastic baits, I don't use a primer, just dip in acetone and paint. For repaints, I scrape off as much of the old paint as I can, sand off the rest, dip in acetone, and paint.
When I make a prototype out of PVC, and am anxious to fish it immediately, I use an all rattle can paint scheme, adding additional colors within the 1 hour recoat time, heat it with a hair dryer to accerate the paint cure, and then let it dry overnight. The different paint layers burn into each other, and I never have a problem when I fish them the next day.