How To Pour Bv 3d Double Pour Swimbait?

[HooKeD BaiTz]

anybody have any idea how to pour that swimbait or a similar swimbait? i recently just got started on pouring senkos and want to get more technical and start pouring a high end type of swimbait like that one. it was made from a guy near clear lake, ca. B. Velveck the pro fisherman is who it was made for he won a tourney on it and its by far the best swimbait i have ever seen. anyways, any ideas on if it was a simple pour or injection? any tips or ideas? feel free.

this is the swimbait if anyone was woundering...

http://www.outdoorproshop.com/Rago-Baits-Velvick-BV-3D-Swimbait-p/rago-velvick-3d.htm

[GB GONE]

Not sure how they are poured but look like hand poured to me. I doubt the pour itself is very technical, it is the molds that are/will be.

I am sure that Del had a post at some point here regarding the 3D swimbaits and the mold process of a stacking mold or 3 part mold. Been a while so I can't remember details that well but this has been discussed.

Might want to give Del a shout.

Jim

[GB GONE]

PS Kevin at Basstackle.com has a 5" mold of a hitch that is anatomically correct (or dang near). It is hand injection and you can get something very close to the colors Rago is out with. There is also a video available on his site of the swimming action.

Jim

Edited May 19, 2010 by ghostbaits

[Frank]

PS Kevin at Basstackle.com has a 5" mold of a hitch that is anatomically correct (or dang near). It is hand injection and you can get something very close to the colors Rago is out with. There is also a video available on his site of the swimming action.

Jim

I have that mold and at a kwik glance it looks the same it is not near as fat as the rago. The mold for the rago is very differant. That thing is very wide at the bottom. Dont know of any mold that is that wide. Unless you make your own. Frank

[GB GONE]

Sorry Frank, guess I should have been more clear as the 2 baits are not alike at all. I was just referring to a bait that looks similar.

No doubt the mold would be something custom and to be able to do a 3 color bait, a laminate hand injector would not work. From what I understand, the molds stack on a pin system and as you pour, you add the next layer of mold. Quite ingenious!!!

Jim

PS You could make a nose pour mold from plaster of paris/rtv, etc and just spray the lateral line with paint....

Edited May 19, 2010 by ghostbaits

[nova]

Jim; I think that mold might be a 3 part mold. Two sides together for the first "open" pour and then the top part put on for to finish with a vertical pour through a sprue hole.

www.novalures.com

Edited May 19, 2010 by nova

[GB GONE]

I thought it might be a 3 part mold with a top part that had a sprue for a horizontal last layer. Has to be one or the other but with the top dorsal fin, you have to be right. I am sure Del has done molds like this in the past.

Interesting and I'd love to play around with something like this. Maybe if I shake loose sometime in October!!!

Jim

Edited May 19, 2010 by ghostbaits

[HooKeD BaiTz]

thanks guys, im really interested in getting a mold like that or learning the how to's on a similar swimbait. but ya thanks for the help

[HooKeD BaiTz]

oh and what is a sprue?

[nova]

oh and what is a sprue?

The pour hole.

www.novalures.com

[DeltaMan]

i don't know if any of you have seen these close up but there is absolutely no, and mean no seam line what so ever.

[Mattlures]

The molds Jerry uses are soo much more complex then you guys even know.

I think I will call him so he can get a laugh at this thread.

[HooKeD BaiTz]

i would like to just take a look at these complex molds just to see how he does it... best swimbait i have ever seen. no doubt.

[BBK]

The molds Jerry uses are soo much more complex then you guys even know.

I think I will call him so he can get a laugh at this thread.

No need to be a douchebag.

[Mattlures]

You are SOOOO right, there is no need to be a douchebag. A douchebag would be the guy who tells everybody how somebody else makes his living.

[BBK]

You are SOOOO right, there is no need to be a douchebag. A douchebag would be the guy who tells everybody how somebody else makes his living.

So instead you post that everyone is stupid and you are going to show people this so they can laugh at their stupidity. That my friend is being a douchebag.

[Mattlures]

So instead you post that everyone is stupid and you are going to show people this so they can laugh at their stupidity. That my friend is being a douchebag.

Wow you might have some self esteem issues? I never called anybody stupid, nor was it implied. I was simply stating that as far as the guesses go, his molds are more complex then that.

BTW I did call Jerry to tell him guys were talking about how he made his bait. I was wrong, he didn't think it was funny.

Look why not create and design your own. Then its yours. You get all the satisfaction in knowing that you created something that works. When you recreate sombody elses, its not yours. You may have been the one who poured it, or maybe you thought of a different color but its still sombody elses bait. If you get satisfaction out of catching a fish from a lure that you recreated from sombody elses design, Just imagine how great it feels when you designed the bait.

[rockslide]

got of love those Hard gills! West Coast

[GB GONE]

In my opinion, Matt didn't mean any disrespect towards us for sure. He only posts a few times here (more are welcomed at any time...LOL) but is honest and provides information we can use. It is way different looking at these posts from the other side of the spectrum I am sure. Jerry and Matt make baits for a living, that is how they "pay the bills". We are hobbyists.

The baits and styles they come up with are from thousands of hours of on the water testing from guys at the highest level of the game. The money they spend to create and take chances on new or different products is completely out of our league. Then they have to sit back and watch as their designs/ideas are ripped off for free. I am just trying to put myself on the other side of the situation and imagine if it was I that had created the bait or design. I would get a chuckle out of guys trying to re-create it. It would not be any disrespect.

Original designs and products are few and far between in the fishing world and when a swim comes out and is used as effective as Jerry's new bait was, on the highest level of the fishing sport, in 2 tournaments in a row, on seperate sides of the US, much respect should be given.

Matt is a voice we need to welcome and not distance as is a wealth of knowledge and has strong ties in the soft plastics industry.

Just my 2 cents.....

Jim

[HooKeD BaiTz]

jim i completely agree with you, i wasnt wanting to pour the exact bait. i just wanted to learn how he made a mold that exact, so when i want to get a custom swimbait mold of my own i would know how. and be kind of ahead of the game. in no way did i want to rip him off. just the general idea of these "complex" molds. just so i can better understand for myself.

and i agree with u too matt. when u work as hard as you do nobody should rip you off of your design. but people will get close to a design if they like it. thats the way business is these days if something is popular.

i wasnt wanting the mold put in front of me or anything. just some input on how he can make a mold that precise without any seam lines... etc. i think you guys get the drift. because i would like to have a business out here in california that i can sell baits for a living like you matt. and would like a shot at starting out with someone helping me with experience, and not starting on square 1. That way molds and baits can, yes get more complex, and better as time goes on. basically better baits quicker, for the fishing industry.

[GB GONE]

would like a shot at starting out with someone helping me with experience, and not starting on square 1. That way molds and baits can, yes get more complex, and better as time goes on. basically better baits quicker, for the fishing industry.

Good luck man! There is a thread over in the hard bait section that sums up the way a lot of old guard soft plastic guys feel I think. In no way was I trying to say that you personally were trying to rip off Jerry or his swims, sorry if it came out that way.

To be totally honest, I think you have to start from square 1 and cut your teeth or you will have little to no chance of being successful. Being decent at hand pouring made a jump into the hand injection area simple for me. Learning to mold with plaster of paris and simple molding materials helps you see how the materials interact with the plastic and gives you valuable venting experience. All of this experience is valuable information going forward and can be used to create more complex experiments and eventually colors or baits.

Lots of guys want to pick up a mold that is VERY close to an already successful bait, ride their marketing and success of that bait to their own sales. Overnight, get rich quick type deals. That road will just eventually lead you to court for patent infringement or being on the end of numerous "cease and desist orders".

The copycat molds are out there (heck, I have some) but you will quickly find out that you can get to a level where you barely break even that way and that is about it. Having something others can't or won't do plus the experiences behind all that is what will get you to a higher level in my opinion. That and a LOT OF LUCK!!!!

Can I get an amen now???!!! LOL!!!

Seriously, good luck and think outside the box.... Many of my ideas start from an idea that has started on TU...

Jim

Edited May 26, 2010 by ghostbaits

[mark poulson]

Imitation is flattery.

Duplication is theft.

If you're a hobbyist who pours for himself, and want to duplicate someone's work, email them and ask first.

If you're a pro making a living pouring, don't even think about it.

Edited May 26, 2010 by mark poulson

[mainbutter]

the guy who tells everybody how somebody else makes his living.

And Prometheus took fire from Zeus and gave it to the mortals. And for his compassion to those beneath, Zeus bound Prometheus to a rock, and set upon him a terrible eagle to eat his liver, only to have it regrow to be eaten again the next day. Thus he would spend eternity.

This debate has been going on for millenia.

On the topic of the particular bait in question, can I assume that the guy who makes them didn't come up with the idea of the through-line swimbait? Without standing on someone else's shoulders, there would be no innovation, just everyone coming up with new (and the same) solutions to the same problems over and over.

Matt makes the most beautiful and realistic lures I've ever seen, no reason to call him a dbag just because he's not giving away trade secrets of his own company and those of his contemporaries. Everyone has their opinion about that sort of thing, but Matt is probably very correct that Jerry Rago's molds are quite complex. Personally I really love the attention to detail, everything from the scales and fins to the intricate nature of the face and gills. I think even if someone tried to copy either Matt's or Jerry's lures, they'd probably fail miserably at replicating those sorts of things.

I don't think discussing full 3D laminates is going to, in any way, impact Jerry's business, and he is in no way the first person to do full 3D body laminates.

To the OP: This is just me brainstorming to try to answer the problem of how to make full 3D body laminates. I pour 3D frogs as laminates. The 2 part mold is just a plain jane nose pour to a full 3D body. I take the belly half of the mold, and pour a bit of one color in there and let it cool enough so it doesn't run, put the two sides of the mold together and pour my second color through the nose. There isn't much of a seam if your second color is hot enough. Trying to do a 3 color laminate would be too difficult for that mold though. With a bigger bait, I could do more colors. If there was too much of a seam due to letting the plastic cool too much in between pours, you could always heat up the mold once you have all the plastic poured inside, remelting the plastic and removing seams. However, you MUST take into account that heating and cooling times would be extremely slow and gradual, so I'm pretty sure that's not how the production guys do it.

[Mattlures]

Thanks for the kind words fellas. I do have some advise for beginners. Be careful what you wish for. Running a buisiness and depending on it to pay the bills is not fun. I rarley have fun making lures anymore and I dont fish nearly as much as I used to. Yes there are benifits like I am the boss and I can work my own hours but its still a job and everything depends upon my ability to design, sell, manufacture, and compete. It very stressfull and it is work. Fishing and building lures used to be my favorite things to do. Now its work. Fishing is still fun when I can do it but then I ususaly feel guilty that I am not slaving away in my shop.Lure making as a hobby is fun and rewarding. It stimulates the mind and gives you a great sense of acomplishment when one of your original creations produces for you. When you make it a buisiness it becomes about the money. The entire fishing industry revolves around it and it can get real ugly.

If you have a good job with a future then the best thing you can do is keep lure making a hobby and you will love it for as long as you want to.

If you got nothing to loose they go for it! Just know that most of the guys that I know who do this for a living arent getting rich. They are making a living doing a job they used to love.