? For You Frog Guys

[Stinger12]

Hey there guys, I've been reading the forum tips for quite some time now and thought it was time to join. I appreciate all of the great info that has been provided. It really makes a big difference to have a forum full of good people willing to help out. I have a question regarding frogs; Do any of you pour your frogs to float? If so, what type of plastic are you using (hard, soft, medium)? Do you add any floating material to the plastic to help with this? I don't have a problem with my pours as they are but the frogs will sink if I let them sit. I would like to if at all possible pour some that will float if left alone.

Thanks in advance, Tommy

[powerworm]

the plastic i use already floats bbcp medium

[Richard Prager]

the plastic i use already floats bbcp medium

Will it float a 5/0 frog hook?

[mainbutter]

I was noticing that my frogs don't float once rigged with a hook. It takes a bit of umph while reeling to get the frog up to the surface and start kickin' after a cast.

I've been pondering how to go about solving this dilemma.

[Delw]

Tommy this believe it or not is a tricky question and heres why.

Plastic is made of basically 2 compounds, hardener and a softener.

Hardener is heavier then water and softener is lighter than water. when the 2 are mixed they become close to the same weight as water or a neutral boyency so to speak.

if you run a hard plastic it will weigh more and sink, likewise if you run a super soft plastic it will be lighter than water and float., Ie soft plastic has more softener than hard plastic making it lighter.

then you run into the type of frog shape your useing, a flat frog like a ribbet frog will pretty much float do to its thin and wide, were as a zoom horney toad will likely sink more cause its thick and and narrow ie more weight less surface area.

to answer your question NO no plastic will float a frog correctly with out microspheres in it for floation, all you need is a very little ( correctly being the key word).

the 3m bubbles will make it so any frog will float with any size hook even a treble for a stinger on the bottom and a 4/0-5/0 on the top.

Get some 3m bubbles aka microshperes and you will be fine, with out them its a crap shoot as you can run super softplastic in a frog to get it to float but they get torn up in the bushes, run hard plastic and they sink.

Just a pinch of microbubbles is all it takes and with a small amount like that you wont ruin transparent colors, if you add alot of micro bubles your plastic will have more of a opaque look. Also you can add enough micro bubbles to a horney toad(for example) and float a 1oz weight on its back.

the stuff is a great additive to have on your bench.

Delw

[powerworm]

my bbcp soft in a 3.5 frog will float a gama 4/0 heavy wire hook. if i use medium i add a tbsp. per cup of microbubbles

[CaptRodney]

Where is the best place to buy the micro bubbles

[Richard Prager]

Where is the best place to buy the micro bubbles

You might try calling Jeff at M-F They're sitting on a large amount that they haven't been able to really move.

http://www.fishingwo...-Manufacturing/

[nova]

All you have to do is design a frog that floats. I have one that not only floats the hook but sets in the water like a real frog does; head up, feet down. I'm still finetuning it to make it just a little better.

www.novalures.com

[carolinamike]

Del and Nova are both right. Unless you specifically design the frog to float, you will need floating bubbles. I worked with a company not too long ago that's frog body was thick and probably about an inch and a half wide, even using a super soft plastic after rigging the bait and a couple of yanks it sinks. Slow but it sinks. You can shape the body, add air pockets and other things that will make it float without bubbles, but if it's thick and considerably wide for a bait, that much plastic will need help floating.

[Stinger12]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll give these suggestions a try.

[Vodkaman]

Something in the above posts is not making sense to me. Providing the basic poured plastic floats, then the larger the bulk of the body, the more weight it will support, regardless of the shape.

You need to find out how much weight a block of plastic will support. Weigh the frog body (without legs). Float the body, adding weight until it no longer floats. Weigh the weighted body. With this information it is possible to calculate the body weight to support the hook.

For this example I have just made up numbers:

Plain body (no legs) weighs 30gm

Weight added for neutral buoyancy = 0.8gm

Weight of hook required to float = 2.7gm

2.7gm / 0.8gm = 3.375

3.375 x 30gm = 101.25gm This is the minimum weight of plastic body to support the hook.

Sorry for introducing numbers yet again, but this is a very simple way of helping you design a frog body for a specific hook.

Dave

[Cami]

Hi Guys, have you ever tried to insert a shaped piece of EVA foam inside your frog mold? You can also add to it some lead weight, for instance in the back for a natural position, and it is a good support for the hook. Of course with this system you can use hard pvc rubber as you want. It works!

NB: it is not my idea, but you can find it inside the Italian Forum which I participate http://xoomer.virgilio.it/cjbur/a_topFrogKayak.htm

Instead I have just made a Frog completely with foam.

Bye Cami

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

to answer your question NO no plastic will float a frog correctly with out microspheres in it for floation, all you need is a very little ( correctly being the key word).

Delw

Would that be like the micro balloons used in epoxy resin as a filler to make epoxy fairing paste? I have a whole big bag of them left over from a boat repair project. They do have a redish tint to them. I never saw why they could not be available in white or clear too. Then I bought mine from a boat building supplier.

I was already thinking about trying them in some floating baits, but I have not gotten around to making a frog mold yet.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Bob La Londe

[GB GONE]

Look at the 3:16 frog as well. They incorporated an air bladder for flotation. I tried the foam idea a long time ago but if you try to dip over it or seal the foam with plastic, you get bubbles from the air in the foam. Tried gluing but it just looked terrible.

The only drawbacks you will see with adding the microshperes is that your frog will toughen up considerably and you will loose the action in the legs. Some frogs will not kick at all. You will be limited in your colors you can make also. The microshperes will make any color light. Ie... Black will be gray, dark green is army or lighter green, etc.

My solution was to use microsphered and non-microsphered plastic. Swirl or laminate bait is fine. I have accomplished a nice actioned floating frog with both my paddle tail frog (4/0 hook) and my larger bodied frog (5/0 or 6/0 hook).

This gives the bait both characteristics without giving up the action.

Jim

PS If you use the microspheres, USE RESPIRATORY PROTECTION. These babies are airborne easy and will get into your lungs quick.

[carolinamike]

Vodkaman, help me out with this one. It must have something to do with the mass, how come a six inch worm will float a 3/0 hook but a 2 lb block of the exact same plastic sinks? Never exactly understood why this happens, just know that it does. But because of the shape of some of the baits that I make, even thicker body ones will float up off the bottom, but won't float on the surface even without a hook. I like to think it's magic.

[GB GONE]

2lb square of plastic is more dense than thin worm. Gravity pulls more on the solid, dense block vs worm.

Dave, wat u say?

Jim

[Delw]

Would that be like the micro balloons used in epoxy resin as a filler to make epoxy fairing paste? I have a whole big bag of them left over from a boat repair project. They do have a redish tint to them. I never saw why they could not be available in white or clear too. Then I bought mine from a boat building supplier.

I was already thinking about trying them in some floating baits, but I have not gotten around to making a frog mold yet.

Are you talking the flour type stuff that is used in fiberglass work? Ive tried it it does help but really makes your baits cloudier than using the a small amount of microshreres

Vodkaman, help me out with this one. It must have something to do with the mass, how come a six inch worm will float a 3/0 hook but a 2 lb block of the exact same plastic sinks? Never exactly understood why this happens, just know that it does. But because of the shape of some of the baits that I make, even thicker body ones will float up off the bottom, but won't float on the surface even without a hook. I like to think it's magic.

2lb square of plastic is more dense than thin worm. Gravity pulls more on the solid, dense block vs worm.

Dave, wat u say?

Jim

I look at it this way. if you have a sheet of ply wood laying flat on the water its going to float, if you have the same sheet of plywood on its side on the water it will sink.

more weight distibutions per square inch, just like Ghosts 2lbs of plastic if you poured it out only a 1/2" thick its going to float more also due to it will actually trap air underneath it.

[Vodkaman]

To me, this just does not sound right. But I cannot argue against the facts. This also explains your earlier statements. I will have to go away and think about this some more. I lost a few brain cells last night and need time to recover.

Dave

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Are you talking the flour type stuff that is used in fiberglass work? Ive tried it it does help but really makes your baits cloudier than using the a small amount of microshreres

There are a number of fillers for glass resin. Wood flour is one of the cheapest and may be what you were thinking of. Then chopped and milled glass which are heavy but are very strong and finish clear. Finally micro balloons. Supposedly micro balloons are air filled pockets. I was wondering if they are the same thing as you are calling microspheres or if they were something else. I guess I need to make or buy a frog mold and try some to see what happens.

As to the other comments they may be referring to surface tension, but that is not IMO a reliable way to float a bait. Otherwise whether or not an object will float is based on its density relative to water. If it traps air it will reduce its net density. Hence why Spro Frogs float... until they stop trapping air.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Bob La Londe