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Wood To Pvc
9 replies to this topic
Posted 05 June 2010 - 09:59 PM
I recently tried making one of my jointed jerk baits out of PVC instead of bass wood. The PVC lure seemed to have a different action with more rolling, not enough to turn it over but more than what i was going for. I suppose it may work better in certain situations but it is not the swimming action my wooden baits seem to emulate. I use a 1/4 inch shot behind the lip follwed by 1 bb in front of the middle hook hanger and 1 bb behind it. I was curious if anybody else has run into this with PVC baits when they made the switch from wood. Or if someone has a clever way to dull roll action. I'm all ears thanks.
Posted 06 June 2010 - 12:44 AM
A picture(at least sideview)of your baits , both of the PVC and basswood lure , would be nice to try to track down your roll problems , ......could be ballast issues or also a matter of the line tie/lip configuration .
But in general I'd say , that if the PVC baits sport more of a roll compared to alikes(???)of basswood , they'd require more weight in their bellies .
greetz , diemai
Posted 06 June 2010 - 09:07 AM
I think Dieter nailed it. The PVC is probably not as buoyant as the bass wood.
The PVC I use is about the same buoyancy as poplar, a med. density hardwood that I used to use for lures.
I've never used bass wood, but I understand it is very buoyant.
One way to test it is to cut out two identical rectangles, one of PVC and one of bass wood, and see how much weight you have to add to each to get it to sink.
To keep the same basic lure design, but with PVC, you may have to go to a more flat sided crank shape.
I've found that more round shapes tend to roll, while flat sided, rectangular profile lures, with rounding only on the tops and bottoms, are more stable on the retrieve, with less roll and more side to side.
Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:57 PM
Here are some pics. The yellow perch pattern is made out of the PVC the rainbow trout pattern is made out of basswood. They are 3" in length.
Posted 13 June 2010 - 09:30 PM
While I dont make jointed swimbaits I do use PVC for Cranks, 5"-10" baits..
I had roll on blanks when I first switched over.. More belly weight helped, but for me changing the line tie position really cleared up the problem.. Not height position on the nose tho.. I went another route & switched from a vertical position tie to a horizontal.. Since using the horizontal, the roll is minimal & they run true & straight as a arrow..I think its increased the head to tail sweep of the lure which I like very much..
I got the idea from making saltwater plugs, as with Salts, the tie fits through a metal lip slot & they end up horizontal.. You can also bend the tie up or down to tune your depth.. I tune mine prior to painting so the tie is epoxied into its tuned position.. i dont think the Horz tie looks too weird but its not traditional I suppose..
Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:54 AM
IMO there are three options to get your lures to roll less , each single one might achieve the goal or a also a combination of them !
-Place the line tie a bit further up the nose , ...the closer a line tie is located to the lip , the more roll tendency a lure would have .
-Narrow the lip a bit towards its base(the part inside the lip slot) , virtually it would then taper more towards the base edge .
This reduces the lip's plane , thus generating less leverage around the line tie to counterwork a rolling tendency .
-Put more weight in the belly , possibly beat the lead chunks flat and glue them into flat grooves instead of deeper holes , .....this way they'd sit as close as possible to the belly outline to generate the biggest possible keel effect , ......for an improved keel effect you might as well shape the belly a bit deeper(curved downward)and put in weights at deepest part of belly .
good luck , diemai
Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:21 PM
A thinner, taller profile will also reduce roll. The flatter sides provide more water resistance (that's why walking baits are rounded on the bottom) and the taller profile lets you keep the ballast lower in the lure.
Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:31 PM
A lot of good suggestions to think about and things to try to get the action I'm looking for. Thanks guys
I am going to try to narrow the lures lip at its base for the lure I have already built and will report back with feedback on how it performed. Thank you for that suggestion Diemai . For now i want to keep the line tie at its location because my theory behind that is the closer the line tie (and main ballast) is to the lip, the tighter the wiggle will be. In my experience a tight wiggle lure that makes my rod tip vibrate or throb rapidly works very good.
As far as the horizontal line tie configuration. I have tried it before with limited results due to my own fault really. I can see how it would create more of a swaying horizontal action and I may try it once again now that I am better at getting my lip slot strait. The problem it presents (for me) is less room for error on the lip slot because it is more difficult to tune in that position. At least in my experience or lack there of rather. This may also be because of my lower line tie location that im not willing to give up on yet.
One thing I could not try on my bass wood lures is making the lure taller because the blocks I purchase are only 1"x1"x12". But now that i can cut my own blocks out of the PVC board I will have to try to make a taller more square profile that holds weight lower as suggested. Thanks for the suggestion mark I'm torn between using the 1/4" sling shot/bb's or lead. the shot/bb's are very cheap compared to how much i gotta pay for lead but I can't pound out the shot like I can lead to get the weight lower. Food for thought.
One thing I do on some of my wood lures is add a lexan tail. I attach the tail with Q-tip tubing glued to the polycarbonate, and brass rod through the tubing and bent in a U shape then glued into the rear of the lure. This might help it keep upright with some rudder action, ill have to try it out on the PVC. I put a pic up in the gallery of that particular bait with the tail if you would like to use that idea feel free. Or if you have questions on more of the particulars let me know. It's really just a combination of ideas i got from here so don't give me credit
Sorry about the delayed feedback, this stuff takes me a long time and the experimenting will probably take longer. Thanks again guys.
Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:08 PM
So I finally got around to making the changes to the lure that you had suggested. Instead of making a lure for each change, I just took the prototyping process into fast forward and made all the changes to 1 lure. I must say It did work well I created a lower profile for the bottom of the bait. I put two 1/4 shot in front of the first hook hanger and behind it. I attached the tow screw eye to the front instead of by the lip. And I put the tow eye screw in horizontal rather than vertical. I also reduced the amount sanded from the corners for a squarer profile. All in all it worked quite well. So well I caught one 3 pound bass on it however I did not retie it on after the catch which resulted in me losing it about 5 casts later. So now I have nothing to take a pic of and show you The horizontal screw eye position was giving me inconsistent retrieves. Sometimes it would come in centered sometimes it would retrieve to one side depending where the knot was holding. So I gave the screw eye a half twist back into vertical and it retrieved consistently strait. The action of the lure does not roll as much but it is a more subtle realistic action than my lures with the lower tow eye close to the lip. Each lure has its place the more realistic lure with the front mounted screw eye for less aggressive situations and the lower screw eye gives the lure a panic attack triggering a bass's predator instincts. Of course many of you experienced fisherman knows each lure has its place and time. I am very happy with both types and have caught fish on both types. Thanks again for the good advice.
Posted 27 July 2010 - 05:14 PM
Seems , that you've just gone through a bit of a learning process on crankbait dynamics , .......too bad , that you've lost that lure after it had just proven it's catching abilities .
Hopefully you've got it's design still in mind or even kept records to make a few new ones , would surely be worth it !
good luck , diemai