M@TT

Kbs Diamond Finish

91 posts in this topic

I dip my lures in DN and the way I add glitter is to first mix up some Etex and add the glitter to the Etex. I then brush the glitter/Etex mix onto the bait. The thing I like about doing it this way is that the Etex remains fluid long enough that I can take a brush and move the glitter around to make sure it's evenly spread. The lure is then placed on the turner and the Etex is allowed to dry. Then I dip it in DN. This does add an extra step and increases the overall amount of time spent on the lures, but I feel it's worth it to get the kind of finish I'm looking for and I'm not having the kind of problems you described.

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Still got those @#$@! bubbles in the last little drip spot on the bottom of the lure and inside the eyes. Several of the bubbles in the eyes were as big as the eye...covered the whole depth of the eye. I really dislike this stuff due to the bubbles in those thicker spots. That's the biggest drawback I've seen so far. One stupid little issue..

Matty et all

I threw a few racks together today of micro scuttlebuggers and shot them with all different colors. These two racks represent a new way of doing things here, dip seal, dip primer, spray and dip clear. Up until this point I've always dip sealed then sprayed from there out so this is something a bit different. I wanted to see how much faster adding as many dips as possible was compared to spraying. Much faster.

Last time I dipped a bunch of stuff and sealed the can with saran wrap. So I open up my KBS and IT'S HARD AS A ROCK...

LOL not. It was just fine. I dipped 50 lures. Some drawbacks to this stuff. It creeps.... If you dip you can't sprinkle any glitter on the lure...it creeps no matter how long you wait in the first 20 min or so. So it takes an extra step...STEPS....because I went back twice in the course of an hour and a half and found little beads on the bottom of the lure which had to be wiped off with a brush. The first time was about 20 minutes after they dipped and dripped...the second time was surprising because there didn't look like there was any more to drip. So you have to dip, let it sit for a long while, then go back and sprinkle glitter on them if that's what you do. Time consuming...

Also the second time I went back to check them, when I wiped them with the brush I got thick stringy clear coming off the end of the lure where the brush touched...it's very touchy you have to hit the stuff at just the right time.

Anyways I wanted to see how the stuff worked out with some freshwater lures going to some shops. It has a bunch of drawbacks but I do love the clarity and look of the lures with it on.

Resealed the can with bloxygen and saran again also...had to clean the lid off with pliers there was a bunch of dried gook on there even though I had wiped it pretty good before.

See how it works on the next batch I plan on spraying it to see how it works out.

Attaching a couple of pics to show how the stuff looks close up. Camera isn't that good. post-11475-090127300 1282598828_thumb.jpgpost-11475-085072800 1282598874_thumb.jpg

Edited by saltybugger

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Still got those @#$@! bubbles in the last little drip spot on the bottom of the lure and inside the eyes. Several of the bubbles in the eyes were as big as the eye...covered the whole depth of the eye. I really dislike this stuff due to the bubbles in those thicker spots. That's the biggest drawback I've seen so far. One stupid little issue..

I couldn't really tell from the pics, but are you dipping the lures before adding the hook hangers? The reason I ask is that when I hang my baits the clear coat flows out to the end of the hook hanger before dripping off and this leaves a nice smooth finish on the lure itself. Any cleanup that needs to be done is just a matter of cleaning the metal hook hanger. If you didn't want to install the hardware before dipping you might try inserting a small diameter screw where the hardware goes and allow the top coat to flow out onto it. Just a thought.

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I sell alot on ebay and finish many many baits. I normally brush 1 coat of DN. Then finish with one coat of ETEX and havent had any issues with this system. Just got my pint of KBS and brushed 6 baits. I really like how it flows while brushing but I do have the bubbles everyone is talking about. The baits are completely dry I painted them 2 days ago with watercolors. They are completeing the drying process now and I will apply a second coat here in a little while and I will post the final results. :)

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Hung by the tails is the only way to do these because they use #2 screws to hold the bib in. I found that you can hang them with a #10 cup hook and just softly insert it in the tail hole. The drip is on the top of the lure right at the point that it meets the bib because that's the lowest part when it hangs. Wish they could be flipped I already said that to myself.

I couldn't really tell from the pics, but are you dipping the lures before adding the hook hangers? The reason I ask is that when I hang my baits the clear coat flows out to the end of the hook hanger before dripping off and this leaves a nice smooth finish on the lure itself. Any cleanup that needs to be done is just a matter of cleaning the metal hook hanger. If you didn't want to install the hardware before dipping you might try inserting a small diameter screw where the hardware goes and allow the top coat to flow out onto it. Just a thought.

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My final verdict, stuff is VERY hard and scratch proof. Dries crystal clear but the bubbles are unacceptable. Don't waist your money on this stuff stay with DN etex or D2. I poured about 1/4 inch of this into a dish and left it. it dried with many bubbles like dish soap this bubbleing must be part of the curing process. This is NOT the answer to clearcoats it is a waste of money

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Has anyone tried contacting the manufacturer and asking them about the troubles with the bubbles? Troubles with bubbles?? Now I sound like an old Star Trek episode. :rolleyes:

Edited by RayburnGuy

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I have no experience at all with a moisture cured polyurethane, because I cannot find a similar stuff where I am. Everything I know about DN topcoat comes from what I have been reading here.

But I cannot understand the way some people come to a verdict. Don't waste your money on the stuff, which seems to be the ideal topcoat (very hard and very flexible) because one cannot get rid of the air bubbles that appear in the topcoat. This approach is too harsh, I think.

So if I had the chance to test such a topcoat, and notice a problem (air bubbles in the topcoat)I would try to find out first where the bubbles come from. I think there are 4 possibilities:

1) The bubbles come from the lure (either from the paint or from the wood)

2) The bubbles form when you pour the stuff from the can into something smaller (a jar, for instance)

3) The bubbles form when you brush on the stuff on the lure (if this is the case)

4) The stuff itself forms bubbles when curing, but this is a chance that few people would believe in.

Now how could I eliminate any of these possibilities?

If the bubbles come from the lure, I think there is a simple way to eliminate this possibility. Let the lure dry completely (wood and paint), then raise the temperature of the lure before applying the topcoat (many ways to do that). This way, any tiny air bubbles in the paint or underneath it will expand, and after applying the topcoat the temperature of the lure will gradually come back to the temperature of the place you are working in. If there is still some air in the paint or under it, the cooling of the lure will suck the remaining air into the lure, (vacuum forces), so the air will not even try to come to the surface.

If you think this is not a good way to eliminate the first mentioned possibility, there is an even better one to do this. Just apply your usual topcoat you are familiar with (epoxy or DN), then put on a second topcoat of KBS to see if the bubbles still appear.

2) If the bubbles appear when you pour the stuff out of the can (and this might be the case, as I can deduct from what happened when KBS was poured into a dish), then I would ask myself why the bubbles do not come to the surface to disappear there. For many years now, I use honey in the house (my son likes it), and I could notice that even the air bubbles in thick type of honey will find their way to the surface, even if it would take days for that. So is this stuff thicker than honey, so that the air bubbles could not escape from it?

If this would be the case, I would definitely choose to brush the stuff on the lure, because this way I could put on a thinner coat than by just dipping, and therefore the bubbles could escape from the topcoat much easier. But if I could not still get the results I want, I would surely contact the manufacturer, to see if the stuff could be thinned, so that the air bubbles could be eliminated.

3) If the air bubbles do form on the lure when you brush it on, I would try to brush on as thin a coat as possible, to "help" the air bubbles to go out.

So if you have already bought this stuff which seems to be the dream of lure builders,except for a minor bubble problem, I think you might some day regret to have thrown some "diamonds" to the garbage.

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I haven't tried that particular finish, but, if I dip a lure and bubbles appear, I use an artists brush, wetted with the same finish, to burst them while they hang. I typically watch a dipped lure for the first half hour, periodically blotting off any drips or buildups, so it's easy to take care of bubbles at the same time.

I only dip cranks once, and don't seem to get any imperfections from blotting or bubble bursting that way.

I sometimes get bubbles at the eyes of my swimbaits, because I use stick on eyes over the recesses I make using a Forstner bit, which can leave a hollow under the eye. Since I dip my swimbaits three times, it's no big deal to take care of any imperfections that I might cause when I burst those bubbles.

A little attention when you first hang a dipped lure should let you deal with bubbles.

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I guarantee no matter how anal you want to be that you will still get bubbles on these. It happens hours after they are dipped. How many hours I don't know but I've looked at the lures up to 2 hours later and no bubbles then the next morning they've all got bubbles in any areas that were thicker than the rest..

I haven't tried that particular finish, but, if I dip a lure and bubbles appear, I use an artists brush, wetted with the same finish, to burst them while they hang. I typically watch a dipped lure for the first half hour, periodically blotting off any drips or buildups, so it's easy to take care of bubbles at the same time.

I only dip cranks once, and don't seem to get any imperfections from blotting or bubble bursting that way.

I sometimes get bubbles at the eyes of my swimbaits, because I use stick on eyes over the recesses I make using a Forstner bit, which can leave a hollow under the eye. Since I dip my swimbaits three times, it's no big deal to take care of any imperfections that I might cause when I burst those bubbles.

A little attention when you first hang a dipped lure should let you deal with bubbles.

Edited by saltybugger

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I guarantee no matter how anal you want to be that you will still get bubbles on these. It happens hours after they are dipped. How many hours I don't know but I've looked at the lures up to 2 hours later and no bubbles then the next morning they've all got bubbles in any areas that were thicker than the rest..

Are you dipping wood or plastic lures?

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This might sound dumb (so what else is new) but maybe the top coat is reacting with the glue on the backs of the eyes.

As a test, you could put a drop of it on the back of an eye, and see if it dissolves the glue, or makes bubbles.

You could also wait to add the eyes until the second dipping, to be sure the area beneath the eyes is sealed, to see if that helps.

I squeeze my stick on eyes onto my lures really hard, and that may help, too.

Edited by mark poulson

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Yesterday I got an email from kbs looking for feedback, since the telephone number was in front of me I called tech support. The guy says specifically that this bubbling is caused by the product being too thick. In this case too much is accumulating at the bottom of the lure. He suggested thinning 10-30% with their #1 thinner and trying again. Said that should work fine. I like that too because it's a thinner coat and faster drying I'm sure.

I squeeze my eyes on also and the only time I got bubbles is when I used a lure turner.

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So is this stuff thicker than honey, so that the air bubbles could not escape from it?

If this would be the case, I would definitely choose to brush the stuff on the lure, because this way I could put on a thinner coat than by just dipping, and therefore the bubbles could escape from the topcoat much easier. But if I could not still get the results I want, I would surely contact the manufacturer, to see if the stuff could be thinned, so that the air bubbles could be eliminated.

Glad to hear somebody did that.

Edited by rofish

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When I stated that this stuff is "garbage" I meant compared to my system of using DN then etex. I can get a flawless finish with this system everytime. The kbs will leave bubbles everytime. I have put it on wood, a completely dried painted plastic bait with a very thin coat and also by itself in a dish and the result has always been bubbles. I was simply stating for the baits I sell it is unacceptable to have anything but a flawless finish, my customers expect it and they should. This stuff is definitly clear and very hard when set. When I started with DN and etex I had issues with them also but I learned to manipulate them, I haven't spent the time with KBS to learn to work with it, the reason is that everything I paint I sell. When I get some down time I will continue to " learn" more about KBS. I hope someone figures it out because it definitely has potential.

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I dip my lures then hit the lure with my heat gun, the heat pops any existing bubbles and thins the cc out evenly. the next day i repeat the process and have a flawless finish. also avoid using it in high humidity.

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I dip my lures then hit the lure with my heat gun, the heat pops any existing bubbles and thins the cc out evenly. the next day i repeat the process and have a flawless finish. also avoid using it in high humidity.

Are you drip drying or on a turner?

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I dip my lures then hit the lure with my heat gun, the heat pops any existing bubbles and thins the cc out evenly. the next day i repeat the process and have a flawless finish. also avoid using it in high humidity.

I do the same with my hair dryer, after the urethane has stopped dripping and skinned over. But I break any bubbles with an artist's brush, dipped in the urethane, because the hair dryer seems to move the finish around when it's fresh.

I think the heat accelerates the cure, and makes it hard faster.

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I haven't coated any new lures yetbut the ones I did coat I fished all year. Some had bubbles some didn't they all held up good. I fish tourneys and can't complain on the durability of the coating. Bass tourneys that is.

One thing I noticed is a dt6 rapala with two dips very slowly sinks but doesn't seem to hinder action just fishes a little deeper than 6 ft.

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I haven't coated any new lures yetbut the ones I did coat I fished all year. Some had bubbles some didn't they all held up good. I fish tourneys and can't complain on the durability of the coating. Bass tourneys that is.

One thing I noticed is a dt6 rapala with two dips very slowly sinks but doesn't seem to hinder action just fishes a little deeper than 6 ft.

Are you thinning the clear first or dipping with it full strength?

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Full strength I rotate in my hand a little then hang to drip dry. I got bubbles like crazy once putting them on the lure dryer. once in a while I got bubbles around the eyes.

It was very humid and was using water base paint so I tossed it up to that.

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