Vodkaman

Drying Wheel Speeds

49 posts in this topic

I can really only get the motor to slow to about 40-50 rpm. My lure drying wheels are about 7 inches in diameter and the lures set about 3 inches from the rotating axis.

At 40 rpm, the epoxy forces are 13.5% and at 50 rpm 21%. 100% being the force equal to the weight of the epoxy. Yes, the numbers are high compared to the 1% - 2% of the speeds traditionally used for drying wheels. Also you are using Etex, which is thinner with a lower viscosity, so could stand a higher speed.

The equivalent speed on a wheel with a 10" distance to the spindle is 27 rpm. This is slightly less than one revolution every two seconds, not an unreasonable or outrageous speed.

I would just suggest that you examine the resulting finish closely after a few more lures and report back to me, either pm or better still post, because lots of people will be interested in your result. Post some pics of the wheel and more importantly, the top coated body.

The object of the thread is to try and find the limits of what will work. Thanks for your input and look forward to further feedback.

Dave

Edited by Vodkaman

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Guess I should be thankful that I managed to get it right when I put mine together. :blink:

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Mark

I thought of that idea also. The motor came with a small pulley. I don't know how big the pulley should be on the dryer wheel and I don't know what I would use for a drive belt. I might experiment with this. Do you have any suggestions?

CLM

Maybe you could reduce the speed with a pulley system, so the motor has a very small pulley, and the dryer wheel has a large one. That way, it would take many motor revolutions to turn the dryer wheel once.

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Dave

If for some reason I don't like the higher rpms and the finish what do you recommend? Should I put a big pulley on the drying wheel and run a belt from the motor or make a bigger drying wheel? I probably will keep a look out for a lower rpm motor also if one comes along. Thank you for any info.

CLM

At 40 rpm, the epoxy forces are 13.5% and at 50 rpm 21%. 100% being the force equal to the weight of the epoxy. Yes, the numbers are high compared to the 1% - 2% of the speeds traditionally used for drying wheels. Also you are using Etex, which is thinner with a lower viscosity, so could stand a higher speed.

The equivalent speed on a wheel with a 10" distance to the spindle is 27 rpm. This is slightly less than one revolution every two seconds, not an unreasonable or outrageous speed.

I would just suggest that you examine the resulting finish closely after a few more lures and report back to me, either pm or better still post, because lots of people will be interested in your result. Post some pics of the wheel and more importantly, the top coated body.

The object of the thread is to try and find the limits of what will work. Thanks for your input and look forward to further feedback.

Dave

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Dave

If for some reason I don't like the higher rpms and the finish what do you recommend? Should I put a big pulley on the drying wheel and run a belt from the motor or make a bigger drying wheel? I probably will keep a look out for a lower rpm motor also if one comes along. Thank you for any info.

CLM

Marks idea of a pulley system is a good one. Faced with the same problem, I would make the wheels myself. A 1" diameter wheel driven by the motor and a 5" diameter wheel attached to the wheel spindle. This gives a 5:1 reduction in speed.

I would make the wheels out of three pieces of 1/8" ply. Glue them in a 'sandwich', the outer two pieces slightly larger in diameter. Try to find a source of rubber, try model aircraft shops. Knicker elastic is also available by the length. Try to get the rubber type, for better grip. A rubber coating on the wheels would help to prevent slip, if indeed this was a problem.

This is a very do-able project.

Dave

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Marks idea of a pulley system is a good one. Faced with the same problem, I would make the wheels myself. A 1" diameter wheel driven by the motor and a 5" diameter wheel attached to the wheel spindle. This gives a 5:1 reduction in speed.

I would make the wheels out of three pieces of 1/8" ply. Glue them in a 'sandwich', the outer two pieces slightly larger in diameter. Try to find a source of rubber, try model aircraft shops. Knicker elastic is also available by the length. Try to get the rubber type, for better grip. A rubber coating on the wheels would help to prevent slip, if indeed this was a problem.

This is a very do-able project.

Dave

Dave/ CLM- I have recently tried this!! I decided having two separate motors, one for my rod lathe and one for a drying wheel was taking up a bit too much bench space, so I hooked up a rotisserie motor up to the rod lathe via a couple of pulleys. I can now use the rotisserie motor as a lure turner and also for turning epoxy on rod bindings or slip the belt onto the higher speed motor for doing bindings, seems to work OK so far. The bought rotisserie motors when pulled apart are only microwave motors with a flash cover. For pulleys, I just turned down some plastic chopping board, but as Dave says ply discs would be good/better.

I will see if I can get a picture today.

Pete

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Dave

Thanks for the info. Does it matter how long the drive belt is? With a 5" pulley on the drying wheel and a 1" on the motor my lures should spin at 8-10 rpms if the original rpm of the lures were between 40-50 rpms?

CLM

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Thanks for the info. Does it matter how long the drive belt is? With a 5" pulley on the drying wheel and a 1" on the motor my lures should spin at 8-10 rpms if the original rpm of the lures were between 40-50 rpms?

10 rpm and radius 3", gives a centrifugal force percentage of 0.85, which is a very low number and should give good results.

As for the belt length, shorter is better, but cannot see this as being a big issue. You may have to adjust the tension of the belt, to get it to run right. As long as you can do this by altering the length of the belt to suit, then you do not need to get involved with a tensioner. But tensioners are not a big problem, but why complicate the design.

Dave

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Pete,

When the subject of plywood pulley wheels came up, I immediately thought of your curve sanding discs. They would make great pulleys, too. The groove could be V'd with a wood rasp, or a router.

Dave,

Your formula for ratios is what I was scratching my brain, trying to remember. I was going the 2piR route, and the smoke was starting to come out of my ears.

CedarLakeMusky,

You could mount the motor to a plywood base, and then adjust the tension of the belt by moving the motor away from your drying wheel until it feels semi-tight. Then screw it in place on your work bench.

I wouldn't make the tension too tight, or you might overload the bearings on the motor.

Edited by mark poulson

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Pete,

When the subject of plywood pulley wheels came up, I immediately thought of your curve sanding discs. They would make great pulleys, too. The groove could be V'd with a wood rasp, or a router.

Dave,

Your formula for ratios is what I was scratching my brain, trying to remember. I was going the 2piR route, and the smoke was starting to come out of my ears.

CedarLakeMusky,

You could mount the motor to a plywood base, and then adjust the tension of the belt by moving the motor away from your drying wheel until it feels semi-tight. Then screw it in place on your work bench.

I wouldn't make the tension too tight, or you might overload the bearings on the motor.

Mark - Yes, but it might be a bit big --- I used the nylon chopping board as it was easy to turn down in my 'Drill Lathe ' ':lol: - I t slipped a bit (because of the old belt) but I just added a jockey wheel.

To work out the gearing, I think a 'Ratio and Proportion' sum would do it.?????????????

Pete

rodlathe.jpg

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Dave,

Your formula for ratios is what I was scratching my brain, trying to remember. I was going the 2piR route, and the smoke was starting to come out of my ears.

Yes, I got the formulas out and went straight to spreadsheet and was embarrassed to discover that it was a straight ratio between the two diameters, as Pete correctly stated. I used pi x d, same thing:

Circumference = pi x D = 5 x pi x d

cancel pi both sides

D = 5 x d

I like the easy ones, but prefer the harder ones.

Dave

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Here is a pic of the tensioner that I built on the rocking beam duplicator. It is very simple, bolted to a plate just ticht enough that it can be moved, but friction stops it slipping. It works really well.

Jerry. I was going to post a link to the dup, but post No1 seems to have been deleted. Can you check for me. If required, I have the original text in a word doc.

Dave

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I have a 3/4 inch pulley that came with the sewing machine motor and I made a 1/8 inch ply pulley for the drying wheel. Now all I need is to find something for a drive belt and I can see how this thing will work?

CLM

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I have a 3/4 inch pulley that came with the sewing machine motor and I made a 1/8 inch ply pulley for the drying wheel. Now all I need is to find something for a drive belt and I can see how this thing will work?

OK, sounds good.

Dave

Edited by Vodkaman

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Dave

I found an o-ring for a drive belt. I made a 4" pulley out of 1/8" ply. I hooked the drying wheel up to the motor and I still can't seem to get the wheel to slow down. Lures are still running around at about 40-50 rpm. When I try to slow the wheel lower than 40 rpms the motor doesn't seem to have the power to spin. I think the motor is too high strung. Made for higher rpms and not for torque. One problem I had was I set the dimmer to spin the wheel around 40-50 rpms. I went to check on it awhile later and it was spinning faster. I had epoxy flying off the lure. I reset the dimmer and walked away for awhile. I checked it again later and the wheel was stopped. Very touchy when it comes to controlling the speed with the dimmer. Reset the dimmer and everything went ok after that. The etex seemed to look ok on the lure when it was all said and done. One thing I have learned is that after a few hours when the etex sets up you can spin the lure faster. I will continue to use this setup until I find a slower rpm motor. I will keep you updated and how the etex looks on different lures at 40-50 rpms.

CLM

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Sorry that you are not getting the results.

See if you can find any local electronic component supply shops, back alley shops, not mall. They usually carry a lot of second hand stuff and will likely have a box of motors for you to sift through. I have no shopping experience in USA, but this is how it works in UK and here in Indonesia.

Good luck with the project, stick with it.

Dave

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A worm gear arrangement would get your rotation speeds down. 50:1 ratio would be easily achievable. Plastic gear kits should be available in model shops or try electronic component web sites, like RS components or Maplin. I know maplin have them.

Dave

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A worm gear arrangement would get your rotation speeds down. 50:1 ratio would be easily achievable. Plastic gear kits should be available in model shops or try electronic component web sites, like RS components or Maplin. I know maplin have them.

Using the worm gear, you would not need the dimmer control.

Dave

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CLM,

Not all motors are "dimmable", and not all dimmers work as motor speed controls. That may be the problem you're having.

I know I've run into this on jobsites, but you'd have to talk to an electrician, or a motor supplier, to find out exactly why, and which motors/dimmers work.

Mark

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Just had a thought and it may or may not work. Has anyone ever tried using a windshield wiper motor for their lure turner? You'd have to get an ac/dc converter, but they aren't that expensive and the wiper motor would be more than powerful enough to turn even large drying wheels. And if memory serves me correctly most dc motors are capable of having their speed adjusted by varying the amount of current supplied to them so maybe a dimmer would work??

OK. Now you can go ahead and make fun of me for coming up with another crazy idea. :P

Sorry if I hijacked your thread Dave.

Ben

Edited by RayburnGuy

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Just had a thought and it may or may not work. Has anyone ever tried using a windshield wiper motor for their lure turner? You'd have to get an ac/dc converter, but they aren't that expensive and the wiper motor would be more than powerful enough to turn even large drying wheels. And if memory serves me correctly most dc motors are capable of having their speed adjusted by varying the amount of current supplied to them so maybe a dimmer would work??

OK. Now you can go ahead and make fun of me for coming up with another crazy idea. :P

Sorry if I hijacked your thread Dave.

Ben

No problem here with the hijack, the main discussion had run its course anyway.

The wiper motor is a powerful motor and should be readily available as a second hand/scrap part, at a reasonable price.

I cannot remember the speed of the motor, but it is still going to be way too fast and will require adjustment. The standard dimmer switch is not going to work for this motor, firstly it is too powerful for a light dimmer to handle, secondly, the dimmers are designed for 110V A/C. To control this motor would require a very heavy rheostat or some fancy electronics.

Dave

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No problem here with the hijack, the main discussion had run its course anyway.

The wiper motor is a powerful motor and should be readily available as a second hand/scrap part, at a reasonable price.

I cannot remember the speed of the motor, but it is still going to be way too fast and will require adjustment. The standard dimmer switch is not going to work for this motor, firstly it is too powerful for a light dimmer to handle, secondly, the dimmers are designed for 110V A/C. To control this motor would require a very heavy rheostat or some fancy electronics.

Dave

I'm thinking the rheostat on a cars light switch might do the job. The one I'm talking about is the one on the headlight switch that is turned one way or another to brighten or dim the dash lights. Years ago we used these to construct our own lights for coon hunting. By using this rheostat you could brighten or dim your head lamp so that a raccoon that was "light shy" wouldn't hide from you. Of course this was way before any of the modern head lamps with this feature had been invented. Just another idea I should have gotten a patent on. ;)

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I'm thinking the rheostat on a cars light switch might do the job.

A regular headlamp bulb is 55 Watts and at 12 Volts will use 4.5 Amperes (W = V x I). There are two of them, so the rheostat must be designed to take at least 9 Amperes plus a design consideration for heavier, higher performance bulbs plus a safety factor so that they don't blow out too often.

I did a search on wiper motors and the heaviest power number I could see was 75 Watts, most motors being half this number. So your design idea of the headlamp rheostat is a good one and should work. But Mark's comments will still apply. Whether or not you could slow it down sufficiently before the motor stalls, I cannot say.

Dave

Edited by Vodkaman

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