Search For Epoxy
13 replies to this topic
Posted 09 October 2010 - 03:51 AM
I found a local epoxy supplier, he and his partner came to my house to discuss my needs. He was surprised at my application but confident that he could deliver. His normal business is concrete protection, but he also can provide wood applications.
He has four types of epoxy, water based, resin, urethane and I think the last one was amine, but could be mistaken. He showed me cured samples of epoxied tiles, they seemed perfect, but samples always are.
I showed interest in the resin and asked about UV protection. The resin based epoxy does not have UV protection, so we moved on to the urethane epoxy, which does have UV inhibitors. In one week, he is delivering a kilo of the urethane ($12.00) and various small samples of other products, so I can do some testing.
The epoxy mixing is a 4:1 ratio by volume. First job will be to calculate the correct ratio by weight, as my preferred method. He is also able to provide syringes for the job, so it may be better to stick with volume.
I will now have to devise a series of tests to determine the properties: water resistance, scratch resistance, hardness, application leveling etc. I have D2T as a bench mark. At $12.00 per kilo, I am very excited about the possibilities here, especially as I am currently having to pay $4.30 for an ounce of D2T, $0.34 an ounce is significantly more appealing, also not forgetting the personal home delivery service.
Let me know of any tests that you think I should perform, any suggestions and discussions would be welcome.
Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:02 AM
Sounds promising Dave. Let us know how it works out.
Posted 09 October 2010 - 06:09 AM
Congratulations. Sometimes the race does go to the one with the most patience!
I'd say the best test is to make a lure, coat it, and fish it. That'll tell you pretty quickly if it meets you needs.
Posted 09 October 2010 - 07:53 AM
I tried concrete epoxy surfacer a couple of years ago I liked the way it paints on smoothly and dries super hard but it didnt adhere to the bait kind of like an egg shell over the bait I had problems with it shattering and chipping very easily. I had painted some for a customer and all of his done the same thing the epoxy separated from the body and was just loose on the bait.
I use concrete epoxy surfacer in some of the kitchens and bathrooms I do for people but they arent going over plastic or wood I use the epoxy for inlaying glass beads stones etc into concrete floors to give them a water type look or to make a faux terrazzo look on concrete and to seal over epoxy paint I had a customer on a job who had painted a scenario on her floor in an enclosed sunroom with acrylic paints I told her I didnt think it would work but I rolled 3 coats over the floor and 3 weeks later it spontaniously separated while I was still working in the house it made several popping sounds and popped loose this isnt the epoxy floor surfacer you buy at the nearest home depot or lowes this was the commercial grade stuff that is used in a lot of military and chemical containment work that requires epoxy floors to prevent contamination to water sources etc
I am not pushing you away from this type of epoxy I am just giving you a heads up on my experiences with it I would try it first and let me know how it works and the distributor of it because I may be able to get the epoxy at a better cost yet
Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:22 AM
Thanks, that is good input.
I will double check what application the epoxy he is supplying for. He told me he was delivering for wood application. I will also devise a comparison test against D2T for adhesion.
Posted 09 October 2010 - 11:12 AM
We've got the best man for the testing.
Can't wait for the results
Thanks for the work.
Edited by DUCBOS, 09 October 2010 - 11:13 AM.
Posted 09 October 2010 - 01:33 PM
Mark, you know that is not the way I do things.
Dubcos, thanks for the kind words, but I am only really testing stuff that is available to me. But maybe we could establish some standard tests for top coat comparisons, that was my unspoken thought behind this thread.
I have 8 bodies sealed sanded and painted white, ready for the testing.
Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:21 AM
One of epoxy's known issues is shattering. I am not personally very knowledgeable of this problem with epoxy. Perhaps others could describe "shattering", i.e. does it quickly tear, does it slowly separate, does it explode in split seconds, does it separate molecules, does it blow up, does it fall apart, etc.
If you could devise a static stress test and a dynamic stress test that would "shatter" both your test epoxy and D2T epoxy, the results could be meaningful, if the sample sizes were significant.
It would be interesting to see if either epoxy could be shattered in a replicated manner for meaningful testing.
Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:40 AM
a. Does he import the epoxy components pre-formulated from another country, or
b. Does he import/manufacture the epoxy components and formulate and package the epoxy components for sale locally?
Under a. above, he may be a distributor and should have access to comparative test results run world wide.
Under b. above, he may be at the mercy of his suppliers and change his epoxy formulation often which may invalidate tests you had run to select him as your vendor.
Since you will probably have considerable epoxy investment under a. or b. above, it might be advisable to perform such tests that could be re-run periodically to verify that the epoxy delivered X months in the future still is as good as you thought it was when you decided to go with it.
Good luck on your epoxy testing.
Posted 10 October 2010 - 05:31 AM
At this time, I have no idea about the origins of the epoxy, except that it is coming from Jakarta. I will find out more information on our next meeting.
I agree about the testing, it has to be consistently repeatable. I see four tests required so far: soak, UV, scratch and impact.
soak is just a case of monitoring weight against soak time and keeping an eye on clarity and hardness. I have access to a durometer for the purpose.
UV, a small strip of tape will protect an area, so any yellowing will be visible.
Scratch and impact will be a simple hinged jig with a sharp point. The jig can be weighted and dropped for impact or the sample dragged past the point for scratch testing. The point can be replaced by a round pin for a rock impact. If the soak test reveals a change in hardness, then these tests should be performed also after a one hour soak.
Once the top coat is ruptured and photographed, it can be examined for peeling and adhesion failures.
I agree that meaningful results only come from large test samples. The initial tests will be one-on-one against D2T for comparison. I really do not want to buy any more D2T for further testing. I have enough for the first round of tests. But their is no reason not to do continuing testing on the product in use. Applying excess epoxy to test pieces will not require much effort.
Posted 10 October 2010 - 05:34 PM
I know , that many luremakers from Finland use transparent concrete sealer to dip a topcoat onto their lures for several times , ........never found out about the particular product names , but they seem to be locally made and they provide rock hard finishes , .........I have a few swap lures from Finland made this way , ......never had any problems with the topcoat chipping off !
Many German builders use epoxy from a local supplier http://www.bootsserv...e.de/index.html , basically there are two kinds of resin and a couple of suitable hardeners available , so that the curing time , consistency , etc. can be altered .
Some mixtures are better suited for coating , glueing , ...... whereas others are better for laminating fibre reinforced workpieces .
Edited by diemai, 10 October 2010 - 05:40 PM.
Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:18 PM
I have had a lot of cheap epoxies shatter the epoxy doesnt fully adhere to the bait and after it gets hot or is exposed to the sunlight for a while it breaks loose from the body and shatters like dropping a light bulb into thousands of pieces.
not all concrete sealer epoxies are the same most of the ones sold in home improvement stores are useless I recommend a synthetic polymer base or alkaline base. Acid base epoxy will eat up most plastic and paint for that matter but is most often used in concrete epoxy sealer due to the fact it etches the concrete surface in order to adhere I use this a good bit and it is very toxic and flammable it is used most often in chlorine tanks for sewage treatment plants and paper producers I use it because it seals tight and is self leveling on concrete.
I recommend system 3 products because they stand behind their products 100% I had some hardner that started tinting and they sent me new without returning the old batch
Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:43 PM
I assume you are using their clear coat? What is the working time? Is it thin like a lacquer or thick like epoxy?
Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:54 PM
I know it's not your way. That's why I said it.
I think you're going to run up against the glue vs. decoupage epoxy issue in regards to coating wood lures. The epoxy needs some give to accomodate the movement of the wood.
People who do stamped concrete use a super clear lacquer to seal it.
It holds up great outside, doesn't seem to discolor, and bonds well, although masking tape will peel it off if it's not removed carefully. It stands up to hosing down with no issues, and also to car traffic.
That might be worth looking into.