bassrecord

Floater That Turns Over

61 posts in this topic

Kudos to all who posted their ideas here!!! I've got a prototype idea but more questions come up. nitro98 I'm interested in "what you wanted it to do." Please tell us what you wanted your lure to do.

From what you posted, I understand that you observed that it kept turning over and over during retrieve. Or did it turn over too quickly for what you wanted it to do?

What did you mean about clearing the bait?

Thanks again to all who posted.

John

I meant that clear coat adds mass/weight as well as hooks. So if you go testing the bait without clear coat on a bait that is EXTREMELY weight sensitive it will be a rather futile effort.

Also the bait i was testing would turn over to its opposite side, swim horizontally when ripped. I wanted to is lay flat with no reeling, turn vertical on a very slow retrive and as you soeed up go to the opposite side. I couldnt get it to go vertical long enough at a slow speed and still swim before it went to the opposite side. Hope that makes sense. I will say i really didnt experiment with different materials. Mainly epoxy resin hollowed out and poured foam. Eventually I could make it work but i got too big of a honey do list right now lol.

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I meant that clear coat adds mass/weight as well as hooks. So if you go testing the bait without clear coat on a bait that is EXTREMELY weight sensitive it will be a rather futile effort.

Also the bait i was testing would turn over to its opposite side, swim horizontally when ripped. I wanted to is lay flat with no reeling, turn vertical on a very slow retrive and as you soeed up go to the opposite side. I couldnt get it to go vertical long enough at a slow speed and still swim before it went to the opposite side. Hope that makes sense. I will say i really didnt experiment with different materials. Mainly epoxy resin hollowed out and poured foam. Eventually I could make it work but i got too big of a honey do list right now lol.

You nailed the problem Nitro. You can get the lure up, but it just blows out the other side. In order to get the lure upright, you offset the lip or what ever parameter you choose to work with, but when it rolls too far, it lies on the opposite side, from then on it just skims the surface. I now believe that offset geometry is not the solution. Firstly, the balance is very critical and secondly, like I just wrote, if the lure comes to rest on the opposite face, all is lost.

I am working on a plan 'B' solution now, not tested yet. It is designed to work regardless of which side the lure lands. If it works, it will meet the spec of 6" jerks, to turn the lure vertical and then fall back on its side. Whether it will swim longer distances, I am not confident about that. Testing will have to wait, as the pool owner is working away from home. Frustrating, I am hooked on this problem. Proto's 2,3 & 4 waiting for testing.

Dave

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Good luck man.

The only forage ive seen hit with this action has been bream and big gizzard shad. Thats was i was going after. The problem with those profiles are that they are much deeper than thick so the bait has a natural tendency to try and flip on its side. Ive seen guys building for the first time double the weight of the lure just to get it so swim vertical. Ive gotta get off this thread or yall are going to drag me in LOL

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Bluegill that are stunned by bass or stripers often float on their sides on top of the grass, struggling to right themselves.

I found a bass floating with a bluegill stuck in it's throat. Both were still alive.

The bass kept trying to go down, but couldn't. I thought it might need to be needled, so I netted it. When I saw the bluegill in it's mouth, I pulled the bluegill out and released them both. The bass dove straight down out of sight, but the bluegill struggled on it's side on the surface. I'm sure it got eaten by something before too long.

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You nailed the problem Nitro. You can get the lure up, but it just blows out the other side. In order to get the lure upright, you offset the lip or what ever parameter you choose to work with, but when it rolls too far, it lies on the opposite side, from then on it just skims the surface. I now believe that offset geometry is not the solution. Firstly, the balance is very critical and secondly, like I just wrote, if the lure comes to rest on the opposite face, all is lost.

I am working on a plan 'B' solution now, not tested yet. It is designed to work regardless of which side the lure lands. If it works, it will meet the spec of 6" jerks, to turn the lure vertical and then fall back on its side. Whether it will swim longer distances, I am not confident about that. Testing will have to wait, as the pool owner is working away from home. Frustrating, I am hooked on this problem. Proto's 2,3 & 4 waiting for testing.

Dave

Yep how to stop the bait from turning over and over and over once it starts has been bothering me too.

John

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maybe it needs a stabilizing fin of sorts.

I made a 4" bluegill yesterday that turns from it's side to it's belly on the retrieve in the bath tub. I am going to take it out Saturday for a test drive. I suspect there will be a learning curve to get it to have a struggling fish action.

I'm going to post (4) pictures of it in the gallery.

I made a wide, thin prototype with a belly weight, and several bill slots, and experimented with that first.

I finally deduced that making the lure with a Sammie-type body, and adding the bill on about a 30 degree angle would give me the screw down motion I needed to get a side to belly roll. I painted the back and the belly with the side profile of the bluegill, so it would look like a baitfish on it's side at rest, and roll onto it's belly on the pull.

Check out the pictures. They say it best.

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I made a 4" bluegill yesterday that turns from it's side to it's belly on the retrieve in the bath tub. I am going to take it out Saturday for a test drive. I suspect there will be a learning curve to get it to have a struggling fish action.

I'm going to post (4) pictures of it in the gallery.

I made a wide, thin prototype with a belly weight, and several bill slots, and experimented with that first.

I finally deduced that making the lure with a Sammie-type body, and adding the bill on about a 30 degree angle would give me the screw down motion I needed to get a side to belly roll. I painted the back and the belly with the side profile of the bluegill, so it would look like a baitfish on it's side at rest, and roll onto it's belly on the pull.

Check out the pictures. They say it best.

Mark, post the pictures in this thread, don't make us search the gallery for them. This lure development thread is so rare, we need to keep the information in one place.

As far as my own progress, I am losing the battle. So many good ideas, just not quite working out. Now I have to carve out a new body shape for my next attempt. I am not done yet, but struggling. Hope you guys are doing better.

Dave

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I made a 4" bluegill yesterday that turns from it's side to it's belly on the retrieve in the bath tub. I am going to take it out Saturday for a test drive. I suspect there will be a learning curve to get it to have a struggling fish action.

I'm going to post (4) pictures of it in the gallery.

I made a wide, thin prototype with a belly weight, and several bill slots, and experimented with that first.

I finally deduced that making the lure with a Sammie-type body, and adding the bill on about a 30 degree angle would give me the screw down motion I needed to get a side to belly roll. I painted the back and the belly with the side profile of the bluegill, so it would look like a baitfish on it's side at rest, and roll onto it's belly on the pull.

Check out the pictures. They say it best.

Hey Mark,

Any chance of you posting a video? I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would love to see your bait in action.

Ben

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Hey Everyone

I don't know "JACK" about building baits , I'm still learning to paint , LOL

One bait I know that rolls from side to side as/well jumps all over the place when fished

right is the Megabass Anthrax: it has a patented "Rolling Gyro Balance System".

He's one I re painted , the pic shows the bait wrong side up .

Mike

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Hey Everyone

I don't know "JACK" about building baits , I'm still learning to paint , LOL

One bait I know that rolls from side to side as/well jumps all over the place when fished

right is the Megabass Anthrax: it has a patented "Rolling Gyro Balance System".

He's one I re painted , the pic shows the bait wrong side up .

Mike

Very interesting concept , thanks for sharing , .......just googled for a bit of more info :

http://extremelures.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=64

greetz , diemai :yay:

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Dave,

I seem doomed to be publically exposed and humiliated. :lol:

I am totally internet/photo hosting illiterate.

Please just hit my gallery link, the little green square below my name on this post, and it should take you directly there.

Ben,

I don't know how to make a video, let alone post it here. Sorry. If I can get a friend to do it for me, and my kid to help me post it, I will.

Dieter,

That's a great video, and lure. That lure swims like a regular surface jerk bait, but has it's back facing down.

I hope the one I made rolls from it's side onto it's back, and then back onto it's side during the retrieve. Like a wounded or stunned baitfish trying to right itself. It did it in the bath tub, but I have to take it to the lake to see how it really works.

I made two, one bluegill and one shad, that I hope to test Saturday, if the Santa Ana winds let up.

Edited by mark poulson

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Dave,

I seem doomed to be publically exposed and humiliated. :lol:

I am totally internet/photo hosting illiterate.

Please just hit my gallery link, the little green square below my name on this post, and it should take you directly there.

Ben,

I don't know how to make a video, let alone post it here. Sorry. If I can get a friend to do it for me, and my kid to help me post it, I will.

Dieter,

That's a great video, and lure. That lure swims like a regular surface jerk bait, but has it's back facing down.

I hope the one I made rolls from it's side onto it's belly, and then back onto it's side during the retrieve. Like a wounded or stunned baitfish trying to right itself. It did it in the bath tub, but I have to take it to the lake to see how it really works.

I made two, one bluegill and one shad, that I hope to test Saturday, if the Santa Ana winds let up.

I fished them both today, and they both work!

Just show that even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while. Or, as my father used to say, the sun shines on every dogs behind once in a while. :D

I worked the smaller shad bait with a twitch retrieve, small pulls. It looks just like a struggling bait fish, roling from its side to its belly, and back. I threw it with 8lb fluoro today, because that's what was on the rod/reel setup that would cast it best. It only weighs 12 grams, so I'm using a med. lite 7' baitcaster.

I'll spool some 8lb fluoro onto a reel and see if that makes it work even better, but I'm really happy with the way it work. I can't wait to throw it to boilers, or just to twitch it along the shoreline when the water warms and the fish move up more shallow.

The bigger bait, the bluegill also does the side/belly/side twister roll really well, too.

Plus, it will walk just like a Sammie, but it has the added roll, and some splash from the bill, so it raises a ruckus without moving too far. I think it will also shine in warmer weather, and also worked over bedding bass.

The bluegill weighs 27 grams, if I remember right, so it casts like a bullet. I threw it with a med. heavy rod, and 14lb mono.

I'm stoked!

Tomorrow, I'm going to make a couple more of the larger bait, one finished as a baby bass, and the other as a beige-based bluegill for clear water. I'm even thinking about laminating up a thicker PVC blank so I can make a 7" trout version! Sick puppy! :lol:

P.S. I think I included enough info with the photos to let you guys make your own, if you want. Please feel free to "knock it off", and let me know if I can help.

Edited by mark poulson

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I just posted some pictures in the gallery of two new twisters I made and painted today. One is a clear water bluegill, and the other is a baby bass.

I made them 1" wide, and 7/8" tall, instead of 7/8"X7/8" like the first one, to give them the wider appearance at rest. It added about 5 grams to the weight.

I'll probably sneak over to the local pond to test drive them this week, but, since they are shaped and weighted like the original, I don't think there will be a problem.

I am going to tie some matching feather trebles for them before I fish them.

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you should seriously upload a video. its not hard.

If I can get my youngest daughter to help me, I will, but no promises. First I have to figure out how to make the video. ;)

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If I can get my youngest daughter to help me, I will, but no promises. First I have to figure out how to make the video. ;)

most ordinary point and shoot cameras have a video option.

once you take the video just put it on your computer like you would any pictures you take, then go on the internet and make an account with Photobucket if you haven't already,(www.photobucket.com), and upload the video there. its as easy as that! then you can link us to the video.

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If I can get my youngest daughter to help me, I will, but no promises. First I have to figure out how to make the video. ;)

Mark your work is really impressive. I'm still trying to understand what you did and if it can be down sized to fit my needs. I've got questions but I'll wait for the video or more detailed explanation.

Thanks a million!

John

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Mark your work is really impressive. I'm still trying to understand what you did and if it can be down sized to fit my needs. I've got questions but I'll wait for the video or more detailed explanation.

Thanks a million!

John

John,

Click on the gallery icon below my name, the little green box, and it'll take you to my gallery. I made a small shad twister that's in there. 3 1/4" long, 12 grams. It does the same side/belly/side movement when it's twitched.

Email me with any questions.

Mark

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Alright, here goes nothing:

http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s105/markpoulson_stevie/

My daughter ( the camera person), her dog Charlie (a coon hound), and I made these videos. I didn't post the one where Charlie gets in the way, and I keep hitting him with my rod tip as I work the lure. Too much cussing. :lol:

Anyway, between the videos I did post, you should be able to see how the lures work on a walk the dog retrieve, and when twitched.

The sun was in our faces, and I had no idea how to make the video, so forgive the clumsy effort. My poor daughter was trying to film while Charlie was pulling on his leash, which was in her non-camera hand.

I am fishing with a buddy who is a professional videographer Saturday, so I'll see if I can get him to take some better videos, now that I've figured out my digital camera will make videos. Doh!!

Thanks for the tip, guys.

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If I can get my youngest daughter to help me, I will, but no promises. First I have to figure out how to make the video. ;)

Still trying to see what you did.

John

Edited by bassrecord

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Still trying to see what you did.

John

John,

Sorry the videos weren't clearer. It's my fault. I insisted we bring her dog along, and he is a 65lb handful.

Try to visualize a regular walking bait, but with a bill like a wake bait. Now turn the bill so that it's not square to the front of the bait, but is at a 30+- degree angle. When the lure is moved forward, the bill acts like a screw and rotates the bait.

I painted the side image of the bluegill on the bottom, so it faces down at rest. When I pull or twitch the bait, it rolls so that the side with the belly paint scheme faces down, and then it rolls right back up to the belly down position.

So the bait looks like a fish lying on it's side, and then struggling to turn upright, but finally winding up back on it's side.

With that in mind, look at my gallery photos again, and see if it makes more sense.

I'm not sure yet if I will fish this weekend with my videographer friend. I may have a funeral to go to, and don't know yet which day it will be.

If I do fish with him, and it's calm enough (right now there are 40mph winds), I'll ask him to try and make some better video, and I'll post it.

Mark

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John,

Sorry the videos weren't clearer. It's my fault. I insisted we bring her dog along, and he is a 65lb handful.

Try to visualize a regular walking bait, but with a bill like a wake bait. Now turn the bill so that it's not square to the front of the bait, but is at a 30+- degree angle. When the lure is moved forward, the bill acts like a screw and rotates the bait.

I painted the side image of the bluegill on the bottom, so it faces down at rest. When I pull or twitch the bait, it rolls so that the side with the belly paint scheme faces down, and then it rolls right back up to the belly down position.

So the bait looks like a fish lying on it's side, and then struggling to turn upright, but finally winding up back on it's side.

With that in mind, look at my gallery photos again, and see if it makes more sense.

I'm not sure yet if I will fish this weekend with my videographer friend. I may have a funeral to go to, and don't know yet which day it will be.

If I do fish with him, and it's calm enough (right now there are 40mph winds), I'll ask him to try and make some better video, and I'll post it.

Mark

"I see!" Said the blind man to his deaf daughter! Finally duh! I'm starting to see what you have accomplished! Way to go! Your baits really look good. I'm not a rod and reel guy but in your video it seems like your shad mimics a dying fish like my Dad used to do by using a Creek Chub Injured Minnow. During the retrieve, both seem to go in small circles which are very attractive to LM bass but yours goes even further by turning over on its side. This bait's action, when coupled with a much slower retrieve, should be especially devastating early mornings and late evenings on top water.

I eagerly await more info and your opinions.

Thanks much.

John

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i like the twitching action in the first video. i'm curious as to what the bait does on a slow steady retrieve (no added action from the rod tip). does it just roll over and over or does it swim like a crankbait would?

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