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Another Top Coat ?
14 replies to this topic
Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:24 AM
I have been looking into these water based poly topcoats. like the new DN and SC9000. I was wondering, I was at Sherwin williams and they have there own brand of exterior waterbased clear topcoat. Would there be any diffrence in the two?
Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:59 AM
I'm awaiting the arrival of my DN sample, so I don't anything know about it yet.
I do know about SC 9000. The company who makes it, Target Coatings, also makes an exterior urethane, EM9300.
EM 9300 is not as clear as the SC 9000. SC stands for Super Clear.
The SC 9000 is sold as an interior urethane, but it works fine for me for swimbaits and cranks. I'm just careful not to let it soak in water overnight, or lie on a wet carpet overnight, which will soften and cloud the finish. If that does happen, letting it hang and dry overnight will restore the finish to clear and hard.
For salt water baits, I use the EM 9300. It is truly waterproof, and even harder than the SC 9000. But the film is so strong that I have to put a coat of SC 9000 over my Createx paint first, or the EM 9300 will cause the underlying paint to crackle.
As for Sherwin Williams, all I can say is buy a small amount and test it.
You may have found a winner.
Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:20 AM
With all due respect to Mark's comment, we all have our own idea of what's best in clearcoats.
I personally will not waste another nickel on the water-based topcoats. I have tried the SC9000 and it is no where near tough enough to be used as a topcoat unless you plan on drying your lure off after each cast. Any coating that wont' allow you to soak the lure overnight without damage is not good enough. Buy any commerically made lure, rapala, heddon, luhr jensen, etc., and sink it in a bucket for a month and it will be just like new. If you are painting plastic lures to be used for bass, try a can of spray-on lacquer and you will have better luck than the water based products. If building a lure from wood, stay with envirotex, devcon, or the original Dick Nite and you will be fine.
Edited by RiverMan, 03 February 2011 - 11:28 AM.
Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:51 AM
I understand what you're saying. I haven't had a bad experience fishing lures with SC 9000 as a top coat, only with soaking them.
Seriously, I do heat set the urethane with a hair dryer as it's drying, and that may help it to be harder. I'm wondering if heat setting it actually helps with it bonding better to the Createx.
I also use PVC, which is very hard, and totally waterproof, and never have an issue with it being too soft.
Admittedly, I generally build for myself, or friends, and don't have to worry about failures.
When I build to sell, I let people know about the SC 9000, and offer them the choice of the EM9300, instead, if they're worried, and willing to give up the super clear.
The last two twister baits I made, I didn't even prime them with the rattle can primer I've been using. I wet sanded the PVC, hit them with the hair dryer to make sure all the water was gone, and to heat the PVC a little and make it tacky. Then I hit them with a coat of Createx opaque white as a base coat while they were still warm, and painted. That let me make, paint, and top coat a lure with three dip coats in one day, and fish it the next.
I'm fishing them for the first time Saturday, so I'll post how that method works, along with how the lures swim, after that.
I'm impatient, and I'd rather fish than build, so that cut a full day of drying time off my building.
Edited by mark poulson, 03 February 2011 - 11:54 AM.
Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:29 PM
of all the baits i've coated in SC9000, the finish has peeled off after only a few fish. not worth it.
Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:38 PM
JFOWLER,if you are willing to pay the shipping I will be happy to send you nearly a full quart of EM9000 (the waterproof stuff). If your refinishing a coffee table the stuff might be fine but if your doing baits I have to agree with Riverman.
This bait is PVC, painted with waterbased paint, heat set and allowed to cure 3 weeks before fishing. After 20 min. and 2 small bass this is the result. If you soak the lure 4 hours you can roll the milky looking stuff off with your thumb. Beleive me, stuff is not the term for it I would use in person
Posted 03 February 2011 - 03:23 PM
I personally use the DN stuff and it works great dipping it or brushing it on. The new stuff seems really clear and really tuff but since there is still ice on every lake around here I can't test it out until late spring.
Posted 03 February 2011 - 03:57 PM
As for all the water poly stuff I cannot comment on anything but Minwax and that suff was horrible for topcoating. By far the worst product I have tied to date. If I were just starting out again I would read up on DN and see if it is feasible to store it for you. If you can get over the storage issue that stuff is great. Super hard and glossy and you can dip n go! I found I lost half the product to curing even when I used bloxygen. And at $40 * 2(because of the loss) for a quart it just wasnt feasible for me to keep messing with it. I dipped my baits so introducing air every time just made the stuff go bad really fast. I even divided it into 3 small canning jars for this reason but it still cured in the jar.
Epoxy is pretty easy to use just make a drying wheel. I use this method on some resin baits and balsawood to add strength.
If you dont care that it reacts to plastic worms and melts you can use DEFT brushing Laquer. As far as I can tell if you keep it away from worm plastic it is fine. I didnt have any issues keeping it in planos or anything. You have to use a coat of createx gloss clear before dipping in the laquer or it will bubble and such. Ohersiwe no storage issues, its cheap, hard and glossy. Again this isnt for me but I still do use it when I get lazy and dont want to spray Auto Clear or mess with epoxy. Once it runs out I wouldnt buy more.
Edited by Matt Moreau, 03 February 2011 - 03:59 PM.
Posted 03 February 2011 - 05:12 PM
the lacquer doesn't yellow over time or develop small cracks?
Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:23 PM
Talk to your local sherwin-william dealer about their Acrylic lacquer and they do have it,T75F18, maybe not in stock $60.00 a gal. but they can order it. you can use it as a build coat to protect your paint and the dip your baits in a automotive acrylic lacquer and they will be as tuff as anything. I know several crankbait makers and this is what they use!
just google acrylic lacquer and you will find there are many places to by it.
or go to www.tcpglobal.com and they have what you maybe needing and they have top notch service.
Edited by jwfflipper, 03 February 2011 - 11:32 PM.
Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:43 AM
I have been told that lacquer does yellow but I have some kwikfish I finished with it three years ago and I can't see any yellowing. I do keep the lures out of the sunlight tho so maybe that makes a difference. The stuff I use is made by Rustoleum and says "clear lacquer" on the front of the can. I typically apply three coats with about 30 minutes of dry time between coats. I only use it for plastic lures to be used for bass and salmon. I wouldn't recommend it for pike or musky.
Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:01 AM
What about a clear lacquer spray in a can? Anyone tried this?
Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:19 AM
The Deft brand brushing laquer I use hasnt yellowed or cracked but it not that old. Less than a year so I cant comment on longevity.
Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:34 PM
Read the post above this one.
Posted 04 February 2011 - 02:46 PM
That's what I was hoping you were using. I just went and bought some today. Going to give it a try this weekend. Thanks!!
Also are you spraying the whole lure bill and all or just the body?
Edited by JFOWLER204, 04 February 2011 - 02:50 PM.