prhunt

Air In Balsa

11 posts in this topic

first let me say that i have been browsing this site for 4 yrs and there is a wealth of knowledge here. i thank everyone for what i have learned here.i have been custom painting hard baits for several years now and have established a pretty good side business doing that. i have came here many times and looked thru the archives to solve issues i have run into. now i have anew one and am frustrated. for about 6 mos. i have been building balsa baits in my free time. mostly deep crankbaits. after burning many in a wood stove i finally have 2 styles that my friends and i are really happy with. my problem is this, i seal the baits in sand sealer(zinser) and then coat them with d2t. they bubble terribly. they are all horrible. i also tried sg and results were better but not satisfactory. i have no clear coat issues on my paint jobs just sealing the balsa. please help. thanks phil

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first let me say that i have been browsing this site for 4 yrs and there is a wealth of knowledge here. i thank everyone for what i have learned here.i have been custom painting hard baits for several years now and have established a pretty good side business doing that. i have came here many times and looked thru the archives to solve issues i have run into. now i have anew one and am frustrated. for about 6 mos. i have been building balsa baits in my free time. mostly deep crankbaits. after burning many in a wood stove i finally have 2 styles that my friends and i are really happy with. my problem is this, i seal the baits in sand sealer(zinser) and then coat them with d2t. they bubble terribly. they are all horrible. i also tried sg and results were better but not satisfactory. i have no clear coat issues on my paint jobs just sealing the balsa. please help. thanks phil

I read you as using the sanding sealer, painting them, then topcoating with D2T? Are you heating the lures after applying the epoxy? Applying the epoxy to a cold lure and then bringing it into a warm room to cure? If so, the Zinser is not strong enough to stop air leaking out of the wood under the epoxy when heated. I don't think it's a chemical reaction between the epoxy and the Zinser because epoxy is pretty inert stuff (unless you thin it with a solvent that may be incompatible with the Zinser). If you want to heat the topcoat, I recommend using thinned D2T instead of Zinser as the sealer. It makes the body tougher, waterproof, and air-proof. More work? Yes, but also reliable results. If you are working towards building baits for sale and don't want the extra time/effort of using D2T as undercoating, perhaps you might try applying the epoxy without any heating.

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thanks bob. i dip twice in sanding sealer letting dry between coats. then i coat 1 time with dt2. air bubbles pop up everywhere as dt2 cures. baits are ruined before i get to prime them. thanks phil

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This was discussed a while back. I can't seem to find it in the archives right now though. Anyway, have you tried heating your lure before applying the sealer? It would seem to make sense that if the air inside the lure was heated and expanded then as it cooled down again it would want to draw air back into as it cooled. And if it was coated with sealer it should want to draw the sealer in. I have done no experiments to confirm this, but you might give it a try. Don't think it could hurt anything.

Ben

Edited by RayburnGuy

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It sounds like the sanding sealer is not dry. I've coated balsa blanks with d2t after sanding and never had issued with bubbles. It has to be a problem with the sanding sealer you are using. Try hitting the baits with a hair dryer before using d2t.

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It sounds like the sanding sealer is not dry. I've coated balsa blanks with d2t after sanding and never had issued with bubbles. It has to be a problem with the sanding sealer you are using. Try hitting the baits with a hair dryer before using d2t.

Mind reader! :lol:

I think Benton's right. There's still solvent in the primer. I hit my primer with a hair dryer between coats, and after the final coat is wet sanded, and then let the lures hang overnight. And that's on PVC baits. I use a rattle can primer to smooth the surface better. The PVC doesn't actually need a primer or sealer for the Createx paint to bond well..

Actually, I wouldn't recommend using a sanding sealer for balsa. Like Bob said, thinned D2T is a good way to go. And heating the blanks first drives out as much air as is practical.

Another sealer you might try is multiple dips in propionate, which is solo cup plastic disolved in acetone.

Dick Nite is now offering a plastic finish that might work, too, although I haven't tried it myself.

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My question is why use a sanding sealer if you also use D2T? D2T is a good undercoating/sealer by itself. For me, the downside has been that I like to thin D2T with denatured alcohol and alcohol tends to raise wood grain. In the past, I'd put on a coat of thinned D2T, sand it out, and put on a 2nd coat to make the surface ultra smooth and durable. Excellent results but extra work. To avoid recoating with epoxy, I recently tried brushing on a couple of coats of propionate/acetone solution before a single coat of D2T. The propionate prevents the grain from rising and the acetone flashes off very quickly. I've also used multiple (7-10) dips of propionate as a raw balsa sealer/undercoating and that works too.

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I normally use epoxy as as sealer. Devcon 2-ton cures a little faster than I like (and faster than it used to!) so I avoid the grain raising by using unthinned slower-curing epoxy, such as BSI Finish Cure, or Envirotex Lite.

Per slow curing epoxies, they must be turned on a lure dryer for usually at least 3 hours, but with their longer working time, one can coat more lures, and, the slower drying provides a got "bite" without having to reduce it.

Do not heat an epoxy seal coat while it is curing, or you will make lots of bubbles. A sanding sealer would not prevent it either. Zinsser is best left for household duties

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I had the same trouble. Look at Delta Laboratories. I ordered some stuff from them that is the best thing I have found it will even help if you have a little flaw you didn't know was there. It has a fast cure time. I usually dip mine about 4 or 5 times just depends on how soft the balsa is. When you call them ask for Kurt he is the man that knows his buisness. They have also got some dipping laquer that is real nice to make a lure one color real fast just paint it white and dip it. Your done.Hope this helps if you want to talk further just send me a message.

first let me say that i have been browsing this site for 4 yrs and there is a wealth of knowledge here. i thank everyone for what i have learned here.i have been custom painting hard baits for several years now and have established a pretty good side business doing that. i have came here many times and looked thru the archives to solve issues i have run into. now i have anew one and am frustrated. for about 6 mos. i have been building balsa baits in my free time. mostly deep crankbaits. after burning many in a wood stove i finally have 2 styles that my friends and i are really happy with. my problem is this, i seal the baits in sand sealer(zinser) and then coat them with d2t. they bubble terribly. they are all horrible. i also tried sg and results were better but not satisfactory. i have no clear coat issues on my paint jobs just sealing the balsa. please help. thanks phil

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sorry it took so long to reply. i have had the flu and been out of commission. i think my problem is solved. after reading the suggestions i i realized that the heat lamp above my wheel is probably the culprit. heat is drawing air to surface before the sealer is cured. definitely a big learning curve i have to endure. thanks guys

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I had the same trouble. Look at Delta Laboratories. I ordered some stuff from them that is the best thing I have found it will even help if you have a little flaw you didn't know was there. It has a fast cure time. I usually dip mine about 4 or 5 times just depends on how soft the balsa is. When you call them ask for Kurt he is the man that knows his buisness. They have also got some dipping laquer that is real nice to make a lure one color real fast just paint it white and dip it. Your done.Hope this helps if you want to talk further just send me a message.

Jaws

I'm interested in what you got from Delta Labs and how it worked for you on dipping balsa and other stuff. Would you kindly take the time to expand on what you learned? I'd PM you but I bet other dippers would be keenly interested also.

Thanks.

John

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