motomania

Rat Swim/wakebait Won't Swim....ggggggrrrr...

25 posts in this topic

This is one of those projects that I just started on a whim, with not much planning, and it may have caught up with me. Hopefully I just don't have a fancy bobber.:(

-

I was fiddling around with some Basswood, and was going to make a Nezumma Rat kinda bait.

Never working with wood, I may have met my match. I used stainless hardware, the 2nd section has plenty of play in it, and it has a lexan bill. (excuse the epoxy on the bill) The bait weighs about 1 and 3/4 ounces. So I could add a little weight if needed.

-

My dilemma is that the bait is buoyant enough, but after putting the bill on, it floats level in the water, but the waterline is just above the line tie/below the eyes. And on the retrieve, it only occasionally wobbles, at varying speeds. But, not consistently. I was hoping for a nice left/right wake on a slow retrive that would wiggle the tail.

-

Here's some pix of it, if anyone sees any obvious flaws in the design, please speak up; I'm new at the wood bait thing.

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

2011-02-14 08-12-55_0006.JPG

2011-02-14 08-13-06_0008.JPG

post-22764-0-73526400-1297693695_thumb.jpg

post-22764-0-25250400-1297693722_thumb.jpg

Edited by redg8r
image removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops! Here's a front pic showing the bill.......if that helps.

-

And here's a pic of what the Nezumma Rat looks like. It was supposed to be in the orginal post where the 'calfishing' thing is. But it did not upload correctly. Sorry, I have no affiliation with calfishing.:blink: Not trying to advertise for them or anything. (DOH!)

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

2011-02-14 08-31-38_0001.JPG

nezumaa_large_side.jpg

post-22764-0-88627600-1297694692_thumb.jpg

post-22764-0-80836400-1297695102_thumb.jpg

Edited by motomania

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice.

I think if you lower it in the water slightly more, the action will start. Try adding some lead to the hooks and see what happens in the bath tub.

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops! Here's a front pic showing the bill.......if that helps.

-

And here's a pic of what the Nezumma Rat looks like. It was supposed to be in the orginal post where the 'calfishing' thing is. But it did not upload correctly. Sorry, I have no affiliation with calfishing.:blink: Not trying to advertise for them or anything. (DOH!)

try a larger lip. not as wide and a little deeper. i usually have to try 2-3 different lips in the bait before i do the final finish work. you could cut a different shape lip and attach it to the fixed lip with some double stick tape for a temporary trial.

also i find that a floating worm works better for the tail giving more tail movement.

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

post-14416-0-53403500-1297696601_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you have already learned one lesson. test before the finish work! i test everything i make ( well over 500 baits) before i do the final paint, detail, clearcoat, etc. that gives me the chance to do alterations if needed.

TEST LIPS: i have a bunch of different lips that i use to test with and when i find the one that works best i cut another like it to use in the bait. you could make some temporary lips using posterboard and tape them in place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On wake baits, my rule of thumb for bills is match the width of the bait with the bill, and have it project down between 1/2 and 2/3 the width, so a 3/4" wide bill would stick down between 3/8" and1/2" below the bait. I use plano dividers for my prototype bills, set in place with crazy glue, so I can trim them down or reshape them as I test them, if I think it will help.

I start big, because it's hard to make a bill bigger by trimming. :lol:

They are easily removed if I want to change a bill, too, so I also bring along other bills, in different sizes and shapes, and tack them in for testing with crazy glue.

Edited by mark poulson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replys guys!

-

Dave, you think it should actually ride 'lower' in the water? And does the weight need to be equally distributed? I was hoping it would wake, and was thinking maybe the nose needs to be up outta the water. (thinking I could add a bit more weight to the rear of the 1st section)

-

Nice rat bait there John! Yah, I have a floating worm on the tail held in with a Hitchhiker.

Definitely some lessons learned along the way. Now when you guys test baits in water before painting, do you at least seal them first to avoid any water from causing issues to the bare wood? Or are they not in contact with the water long enough for it to be an issue?

Keep the info coming guys, I greatly appreciate it!;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always seal them completely before you test them if you're using wood.

Wood will suck up water immediately, and it will change the buoyancy and action, plus you'll have to dry it out again completely before you do seal it. If you don't, any residual water will expand when it gets warm, and cause the paint and topcoat to bubble and delaminate.

Been there, done that. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lip looks wide at the junction with the body, but you should be able to sand down the edges to fix that. Where is the weight and how much? Is there weight in the tail section and where? Don't think you are wrong about wanting the nose high on a waker, at least a slow one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave, you think it should actually ride 'lower' in the water? And does the weight need to be equally distributed? I was hoping it would wake, and was thinking maybe the nose needs to be up outta the water. (thinking I could add a bit more weight to the rear of the 1st section)

Like JR stated, all these kind of baits need testing and adjustments. They only work first time if you are lucky.

The reasoning behind my 'lower in the water' suggestion is that, when testing cranks in a swimming pool, I have found that once the lure hits the bottom, it loses its action. I think that the proximity to the bottom is stopping the vortices forming. I could be completely wrong, but I am applying the same thinking to the surface. Dropping the lure down a couple of millimeters could make the difference. I also am happy to suggest it because it is non-invasive, quick and easy to do.

It makes sense to start with non-invasive tests like weight distribution on hooks, adjusting the tow eye slightly down or up, soft gluing lip extensions. These three tests should reveal a solution, so when you have to incorporate the change, you can do it with more confidence, not total confidence.

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Count,

I'm a complete amatuer. But, what you said makes perfect sense to me. SOrt of light bulb learning moment. thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lip looks wide at the junction with the body, but you should be able to sand down the edges to fix that. Where is the weight and how much? Is there weight in the tail section and where? Don't think you are wrong about wanting the nose high on a waker, at least a slow one.

-

Hey Dave, i didn't realize you were over here too? (From OAF):D

-

No weight in the body currently. Everyones got great ideas I'll tap into in the next few days. I was just afraid I may have a new door stop on my hands; sounds like there's hope yet.;) And, I don't mind boogering the bait up a bit to get it dialed in, it is my first crack at it, so I should've waited to paint it. I think cabin fever got me. And the moment where I said to myself, "Hey.....this is starting to look like something!":P Then I go a bit antsy to add detail. (DOH!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-

Hey Dave, i didn't realize you were over here too? (From OAF):D

-

No weight in the body currently. Everyones got great ideas I'll tap into in the next few days. I was just afraid I may have a new door stop on my hands; sounds like there's hope yet.;) And, I don't mind boogering the bait up a bit to get it dialed in, it is my first crack at it, so I should've waited to paint it. I think cabin fever got me. And the moment where I said to myself, "Hey.....this is starting to look like something!":P Then I go a bit antsy to add detail. (DOH!)

I used to have a "wall of shame" in my garage shop, where I'd hang the lures that I'd built and finish painted before texting, and found out too late that they didn't work.

When I first started making lures, getting a nice paint job was the toughest part for me, so it was hard for me to do anything to a lure that I'd painted.

Then a little light went on in my head. I took them down, one by one, reworked them with the knowledge I'd accumulated, and got them to work. Then I repainted them and no longer had a bunch of lures staring me in the face, shouting "Failure".

All of the lure making and painting skills I've accumulated over the years are directly from here at TU, so keep at it and keep reading here, and you'll do just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-

Hey Dave, i didn't realize you were over here too? (From OAF):D

-

No weight in the body currently. Everyones got great ideas I'll tap into in the next few days. I was just afraid I may have a new door stop on my hands; sounds like there's hope yet.;) And, I don't mind boogering the bait up a bit to get it dialed in, it is my first crack at it, so I should've waited to paint it. I think cabin fever got me. And the moment where I said to myself, "Hey.....this is starting to look like something!":P Then I go a bit antsy to add detail. (DOH!)

Was here long before OAF. If you go all door stop with it, just make sure you warn the wife first. Seeing one of those behind the front door tends to generate screams and long cold nights alone.

Appreciate everyone who added lip info. Have a bunch of wake baits in process now, variety of styles and lip positions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great looking swim bait.

i had similar experience when i made not my first but second swim bait.

the fact that my first one swam perfectly was just bit of a fluke i think.

then i made a second not paying enough attention to how i'd gone about the first

painted it up took it out for a swim and alas it did not swim. i tried different bibs with little

to no change. i then floated my 2nd attempt next to the 1st and noticed it(2nd) floated

higher in water and also noticed that the tow point on the 1st lure was much lower down towards bib.

i hung lead of hooks till it sat the same as 1st bait and bent the tow point down towards the bib.

tested it again and it swum perfectly. (well i think so and so did the fish).

now when i make a new shape/style swim bait i always try to weight it so that at least 2/3 of the bait

sit under the water and this has seemed to work for me so far also paying close attention to the

position of the tow point. one thing i did find was they swam better if the tow point was at or below

water level when the lure was floating.

any way just some of my findings through trial and error hope it can help you or anyone else on here

cheers JR

Edited by JR77

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great looking swim bait.

i had similar experience when i made not my first but second swim bait.

the fact that my first one swam perfectly was just bit of a fluke i think.

then i made a second not paying enough attention to how i'd gone about the first

painted it up took it out for a swim and alas it did not swim. i tried different bibs with little

to no change. i then floated my 2nd attempt next to the 1st and noticed it(2nd) floated

higher in water and also noticed that the tow point on the 1st lure was much lower down towards bib.

i hung lead of hooks till it sat the same as 1st bait and bent the tow point down towards the bib.

tested it again and it swum perfectly. (well i think so and so did the fish).

now when i make a new shape/style swim bait i always try to weight it so that at least 2/3 of the bait

sit under the water and this has seemed to work for me so far also paying close attention to the

position of the tow point. one thing i did find was they swam better if the tow point was at or below

water level when the lure was floating.

any way just some of my findings through trial and error hope it can help you or anyone else on here

cheers JR

-

Great info JR, hopefully this weekend I'll get to tinker with it a bit more.;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-

Great info JR, hopefully this weekend I'll get to tinker with it a bit more.;)

mm,

When I am going to try to make a new lure, I always start by finding an old lure that is similar.

I take a good look at how it floats or sinks, line tie placement, hook hanger placement, and bill size and angle.

I have a bucket of water on my driveway for float testing lures, and that works fine.

Lure companies spend a lot on development and testing lures, and I try to take advantage of that, to cut down on my own lure development and testing time. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE:

-

Got her dialed in. Thanks a million for all the tips. I tried a bit of everything, and things slowly improved with each tip someone offered!:D

-

I started out by adding some weight to the hooks. Every once in a while, I'd get some wobble, although not consistently; but I saw some improvement. Added a bit more weight, and that zapped the progress. I went back to the first amount of weight used. (which I love the added weight, extra distance on a cast!);)

-

Next thing I did was using double sided tape, I cut out the largest lip possible from plano box dividers. This started giving me a little more consistent action at different speeds. Even better,............... more progress.

-

Before tearing into the bait and cutting it up or drilling into yet; I took a long hard look at the other wakebaits I have (And Johns' rat pic!:D ), to look for a common feature I was missing. It seemed they all had MUCH narrower bills at the top, where the bill meets the bait. So I dremeled down the corners at the bait, so it was more triangular. (I think this was mentioned by others too) This yielded even MORE results........almost where I'd like it.

-

The last thing I did was moved the line tie/tow eye right up to the bill. When I tested it, I literally said, "Holy Crap!" :o It started to swim/wobble something crazy.............crazy good!:D

-

So I trimmed down the overall height of the bill to see how little I could get by with, but still have decent action.

-

I've got it where I'm thrilled with it, as I plan on making a few more and experiment a bit with them. So I'll leave this one where it is. It's got a nice wobble which really gets the floating tail zig-zaggin'.

-

I'll try and get some pix of the final chnges for reference. In case someone searches in the future. (as I searched myself before posting, but couldn't quite find what I was after):unsure:

-

Thanks again everyone!:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moto...don't forget to leave the tail off one and paint it like a Gizz for the redfin bite that is coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moto...don't forget to leave the tail off one and paint it like a Gizz for the redfin bite that is coming.

-

Oh yah Dave, you were reading my mind! :lol: That redfin bite is a blast. I thought about making a skinnier one and putting a feathered treble on the tail for just that reason.B) (and it'll ensure those pesky short strikers will come aboard with me!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is awsome info guys. I learn something new just about every day here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now