JHodgie Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 so i just tried foiling a few baits with normal foil. worked great on my crappies cause they were taller then 2in. anyway everything was good till i noticed the foil under the epoxy was lifting. they were fine until i hit them with the heat gun on low. i was using the heat gun to set the createx and to remove bubbles when topcoating. so i guess the question is. is there a better spray adhesive then elmers for this application? or am i just putting to much heat to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I would say the heat gun is way too much heat for baits. That was I used to break golf clubs apart and it will melt the epoxy on bait. I use a hair dryer and I've never had that problem. I also put a coat of epoxy over the foil before painting the baits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I've shot Createx directly over my Brite Bak foil, and set it with a hair dryer, with no problems. But the epoxy over the foil first is a good idea. Foil stays soft, so the epoxy will protect it and make it hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 If you think the glue is the problem, I suggest a solvent based aerosol glue like 3M General Purpose #45. If you are foiling wood, another possibility is the air in the wood expanding when you heat the bait. It has nowhere to go except under the foil, causing bubbles. To prevent that, you need a solid durable undercoating on the wood before you apply the foil. I put on a coat of epoxy before foiling or painting to avoid that. Personally, I only use a hair dryer to dry paint so I can shoot the next color sooner. Many guys say they use a hair dryer or heat gun to "heat set" Createx but I think real heat setting is melting dry acrylic paint into fabric like a T-shirt and requires lots more heat than you want to apply to a wood bait. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHodgie Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 yeah i pretty much use it to dry so i dont smear the paint. i am going to get a cheap hair dryier and give that a shot. but i seal the wood with 2 coats of water based poly. then the wood is sealed before i weight and test them. i am using the poly cause it dries fast and i almost always have some around because of work. is this stuff to weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 jHodgie, I suspect the water based urethane is not water proof. Try taking a scrap piece of lure stock, take an accurate measurement of it and coat it with as many coats of urethane as you generally use. Let it set in water for an hour and then take another measurement to see if it has swollen from taking on water through the finish. Why an hour, equals trolling conditions. If the size doesn't change the problem is probably some where else. We had this problem in the shop because of the difference in humidity from day to day. This would play havock with the lumber stock. Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHodgie Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 jHodgie, I suspect the water based urethane is not water proof. Try taking a scrap piece of lure stock, take an accurate measurement of it and coat it with as many coats of urethane as you generally use. Let it set in water for an hour and then take another measurement to see if it has swollen from taking on water through the finish. Why an hour, equals trolling conditions. If the size doesn't change the problem is probably some where else. We had this problem in the shop because of the difference in humidity from day to day. This would play havock with the lumber stock. Musky Glenn i do seal with 3 coats of etex in between paint coats. i only use the poly to seal the raw wood before water testing to see how much weight to add. would you not use poly at all and go with 4 coats of etex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 The wooden lures that I paint are repaints so I don't have to test. I just sand to bare wood (if they need that much sanding) and apply createx white for the base coat, paint and I use d2t. So my finish is a little different process than yours. Not better, just different. When I taught cabinet making I was next door to an auto body shop (instructional shop) and they always paid a lot of attention to mixing different kinds of finishes. I got to noticing with the wood finishes that some finishes bonded good to certain types of finishes and some didn't. (Personally I never liked the idea of putting an oil base (Not correct term) over a water base anything.) I like the idea of using Createx finish over the Createx paint, but I have never tried that, as d2t is hard to beat. That is just my $.02 worth. Furniture finish Polyurethane lays over the top of each coat and builds up one coat at a time. Some times you can flake it apart one layer at a time. Lacquer furniture finish actually desolves part of the previous coat and forms one new coat and seldom have delamination. But furniture lacquer won't hold up to moisture at all, water spots under a cold glass are common. It will turn white while spraying if the humidity is to high. I still use the Createx and d2t and just don't have a problem, if I get it brushed on correctly. I don't thin it, but I do try to brush it out and not leave it thick. I don't use a turner and don't have problems unless I leave it to thick. I am building a turner, my eyes aren't what they used to be. The other guys on here have better ideas how to get a good finish than I do. I'm 66 and learned to spray with a single action spray brush and I just can't get the hang of using a double action. I have an Iwata that is a much better brush than my Badger. I can't seem to manage that air and paint control at the same time. Any suggestions, and I have spent hours on you tube watching many great painters make it look so easy. Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 My foiling method is to clear coat the bait before I start painting. You will not get any air bubbles that way and it will give the foil a little depth. You can also just wipe off over spray or colors you do not like. Make sure to get the foil pressed down on the edges, e-tex is a little thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkn Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 The heat gun is your problem, I had the same exact thing happen the one and only time I used mine to heat set the paint on a foil bait. I also always put a coat of etex over the foil before paint and it still happened, lifted the foil and etex. At that time I was using 3M high strength #90 spray glue and it still didn't hold. I don't know of any stronger spray adhesive. Since I switched back to a hair dryer it never happened again. I now use both the general purpose 3M and Elmers with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I've never used a heat gun for drying paint but I know even on low it's much hotter than a hair dryer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
