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davefarley98

Ringworm Injection Help

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Just starting out injecting and have been experimenting with the ringworm mold from del's. The first couple runs I have been getting an incomplete fill on some of the rings. I have been injecting slow and steady but they still do not fill completely. Do I need to inject slower? Does my plastic need to be hotter? I have been injecting at about 325. Do i need to heat the mold up? Since I don't want to waste new plastic trying to get it right I've been cutting up and remelting old worms. Would this have anything to do with the incomplete fills? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Edited by davefarley98
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Most incomplete fills are temp or pressure related.. Cycle the plastic through your injecter a couple of times. If the plastic is hot enough you should get the complete fill. Make sure you have enough plastic too. It will cool faster if you don't have much to draw from.

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Just starting out injecting and have been experimenting with the ringworm mold from del's. The first couple runs I have been getting an incomplete fill on some of the rings. I have been injecting slow and steady but they still do not fill completely. Do I need to inject slower? Does my plastic need to be hotter? I have been injecting at about 325. Do i need to heat the mold up? Since I don't want to waste new plastic trying to get it right I've been cutting up and remelting old worms. Would this have anything to do with the incomplete fills? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Dave do you have any pics or a better description of where its not filling? Also what mold? the 5.5rwst 4.5rwst or the 4" ring worm 3 cavity?

here are some things that may help you.

DONT PRE HEAT ALUM MOLDS You'll ruin them and its not necc. maybe 1-2 cycles in the mold with hot plastic at the most but ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER HEAT SOURCE.

when you suck the plastic up make sure you hold the tip at a 45 degree angle or so upright and GENTALY push the plunger this will help get any air out of the injector thats in there.

YOU DONT NEED TO CYCLE ANY INJECTOR, as your doing nothing but creating more problems. if you have a cold injector and do this the plastic will bugger up along the sides and you will get little buggers in your baits, NO AMOUNT OF Recylcing will melt the buggers.

If your doing it on a production level it does help to sit the injector in your prsto pot to keep it warm, however DONT PUT IT IN A OVEN OR ON A HEATING ELEMENT as you can ruin it.

Room tempuature molds and injectors should work with no problems.

as far as plastic being hot enough, try not to rely ona temp guage as every plastic is different as well at the hardness and softness the plastics will be a different temp to cook it properly.

if it pours nice with out burning its more than hat enough for an injector., You can use a colder/thicker plastic in an injector.

2 main things for shooting, make sure your plastic is hot enough and make sure you have no air sucked into the injector( purge it as described above). you may have to shoot 1-2 times so the mold warms up a tad better. however every mold I shoot I never preheat, they usuallly shoot right the first time. I do run my plastic hotter than most as its runny.

as far as reheating old worms, Not trying to be an ass, but your wasting your time in most case's and causing nothing but problems.

old worms smoke, they tend to bubble and the plastic flat out sucks. if your plastic is smoking too much it will cause voids as the smoke has to go somewhere and if there is no vent its going to push on plastic..

Hope that helps, call the shop if you cant get it worked out I will be more than happy to help you figure out the problem.

Delw

Delw

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Dave, Delw is absolutley right. I've probably made over a million ring worms last year and you DO NOT want to heat your mold. Ring worm molds, when you get to looking at them, are giant heat sinks. With the aluminum being cut in the way that it is for a ring worm, it naturally draws heat quickly from the bait. Your mold will heat up quick enough by just producing worms. If a ring worm mold gets too hot, the first thing that will happen is you usually start getting a blue tint to the mold, which means the heat is affecting the color of the plastic. Then after a few shots, you'll notice that the rings are starting to stick in the mold. To hand inject a ring worm, it is going to take practice. I'm shooting anywhere from 48 to 64 ring worms at one time and I still have trouble at times getting the rings to form. It's just kind of the nature of the beast and the way the worm itself was designed. One of the tricks is to have your plastic pretty hot, but not so hot that it discolors. Your first couple of worms are probably going to have incomplete rings due to the mold being cool. But once it warms up a little, not too much, then inject the bait slow and steady. This will take practice. Most of the time you will have a little smoke from the plastic, but that can actually help in the production of this bait. Watch the vent hole, when the smoke stops, the cavity is filled. Lay the pressure to it and hold it. You want to go slow enough at first to slowly push the air out of the cavities. 9 out of 10 times the problem with these baits is that there is air that gets encapsulated in the ring part of the mold. So Delw may have to run you some extra venting. Ring worm molds have to have a lot of venting. You're trying to replace air in a small cavity with plastic. I've been waiting for someone to put one of these out as a hand injected, cause I knew sooner or later this was going to come up. Again if you've got adequate enough venting, it's just going to take practice. The trick is when you do get it to make a satisfactory bait, is repeating the same process exactly the same as you did the first time. If you do get some discoloring on the mold, you can spray a little Greased Lightning and use a small brush such as a toothbrush, to clean it. If you let the Greased Lightning stay on too long before you rinse it off, the mold could discolor a little. I have found this to be beneficial when making the ring worm. For some reason, the molds that are stained from where I've cleaned them with Greased Lightning, work better, I'm not sure exactly why this is, maybe Delw can explain this more. But after so many cycles, I even have to take the big molds outside and spray them down and scrub them good and I usually use a pressure washer to clean them. But we're talking about molds here that weigh well over 100 lbs. The big worm mold is about 36 inches wide, 30 inches tall with only 48 cavities. It requires 2 1/2 lbs of plastic to fill the mold. So imagine the heating problems I have to put up with. Don't worry, you'll get it. It may take a little time but you'll get there. Hope this helps you some too.

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To add to all that, be sure you apply the pressure and then pause for a second holding presure to the mold. I have noticed that my molds with rings will be incomplete if I remove the injector immediately.

The biggest issue I have also noticed is being sure you plastic is bubble free and using your injectors smoothly on both the fill and inject. When rush the fill, I know I create bubbles.

Good luck!

Jim

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Mike

water based degreasers like, zap, simple green ,grease lightning you shouldnt use on alum.

Dave(vodkaman) can probly give the chemical properties.

What happens is these chemicals will etch the alum like an acid, the black your getting is a type of burn and the plastic will stick to the alum., if your fast you shouldnt have any problems. I wouldnt recommened using them at all on alum products.

if you do use them have a bucket of clean water right next to it and rince IMMED. then blow dry them off immed. Personally I wouldnt reccomend useing any of them.

we used to wash out commercial parts in water based degreaser years ago(before molds) to get the cooland off of them. one time I left some in a bucket for 45 mins while talking on the phone, came back and they were black and discolored..

we ended up having to make them all over again.

Delw

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Mike

water based degreasers like, zap, simple green ,grease lightning you shouldnt use on alum.

Dave(vodkaman) can probly give the chemical properties.

What happens is these chemicals will etch the alum like an acid, the black your getting is a type of burn and the plastic will stick to the alum., if your fast you shouldnt have any problems. I wouldnt recommened using them at all on alum products.

if you do use them have a bucket of clean water right next to it and rince IMMED. then blow dry them off immed. Personally I wouldnt reccomend useing any of them.

we used to wash out commercial parts in water based degreaser years ago(before molds) to get the cooland off of them. one time I left some in a bucket for 45 mins while talking on the phone, came back and they were black and discolored..

we ended up having to make them all over again.

Delw

Delw, the staining of the mold is what you want. I know this sounds strange, but take my word for it, it helps on this bait. I discovered this purely by accident and I can't really explain why it works. I don't know if it's the patina that the greased lightning makes or what but it actually makes the cavity of the mold release the bait better. I'm not a chemist so I don't exactly understand why this works, but it does. Maybe Vodkaman can give us a little more insight. If you'll remember awhile back, I told about a thermocoupling malfunctioning in the heat exchanger reaching over 600 degrees. When this happened without knowing any better, I purged the heat exchanger out with air, which discharged this burnt material into a box that I had placed in the press. Being that the fumes were so dangerous (filled with acid), I made sure the exhaust fan was on and immediately evacuated the building. After I gave it time to cool down, when I cleaned the plastic off of the mold, the burnt plastic had severly and I mean severly stained the bottom of the mold. After a good washdown, I decided to make some baits. Now the bottom 6 cavities on a 48 cavity mold were really stained bad. Before this happened, these bottom cavities which are the first to be injected, had a severe sticking problem and with the design of this bait, there is some moving parts. If the worm sticks to the moving side of the mold, then it actually tears the tail off of this worm. This is a very large heavy ringed worm. It's the one that I mentioned that it takes 2 1/2 lbs of platic to fill the mold. Well, lo and behold, when I started up production again, these 6 caviites perform better than any of the other cavities in the mold. No mold release or anything was needed, which I have to use occaisionally, which can cause problems in itself. Well after so much use, and these molds being made in such a way that they draw so much heat from the plastic, the molds become naturally stained just because of the high volume of production that they go through. It's always just the cavities that stains and it almost always blue. So after about 50,000 baits or so, you have to clean the molds. I usually use denatured alcohol or something like this, but I happened to remember that greased lightning would cause aluminum to stain, so I took the mold out filled each cavity with a little bit of greased lightning. After about 10-15 minutes of soak time, I scrubbed the cavities out real good with a brush and immediately rinsed them thoroughly with a pressure washer. Delw we were having to produce up to 5000 pieces just to fill a 3000 piece order with quality baits. Since I treated the mold, our throw away is maybe 200-300 pieces now, out of 3000. Like I said, I don't know what it does with the mold, but on this style of worm, it has definetly made an improvement in production and quality of the product. All of the larger ringed worms that we produce, I've had to do the molds this way. The 4 inch worms, the rings aren't quite as deep, so we don't have the problem with it., but the 5,6,and 8 were nightmares before we did this. I don't know maybe it makes them slicker.

Edited by carolinamike
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To add to all that, be sure you apply the pressure and then pause for a second holding presure to the mold. I have noticed that my molds with rings will be incomplete if I remove the injector immediately.

The biggest issue I have also noticed is being sure you plastic is bubble free and using your injectors smoothly on both the fill and inject. When rush the fill, I know I create bubbles.

Good luck!

Jim

I was having issues with the Mad Grizzly mold and this fixed it. As soon as I started holding pressure on the injector for about 5 seconds after it was full, the legs starting shooting perfect every time. I would imagine that this would work for all molds.

I actually just figured that it was pulling air out once I pulled the injector and since the plastic was still hot, it was pulling it out of the legs as well.

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Just starting out injecting and have been experimenting with the ringworm mold from del's. The first couple runs I have been getting an incomplete fill on some of the rings. I have been injecting slow and steady but they still do not fill completely. Do I need to inject slower? Does my plastic need to be hotter? I have been injecting at about 325. Do i need to heat the mold up? Since I don't want to waste new plastic trying to get it right I've been cutting up and remelting old worms. Would this have anything to do with the incomplete fills? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Wow, way too information for me, not that high tech.

Room temp to me means I put all my stuff like molds and injector in a room with a little ceramic heater and get the temp up to about 80 degrees and keep it there while I am watching TV and drinking beer.

Oh that is in the winter, in the summer I set the molds and injector on the table that is not far from the cooler.

So when all is good, like my mood and the molds & injector are warm --- not by heating directly --- that can warp stuff ---- my stuff is warped enough.

Then all works fine.

Best Regards

Hope this helps... the beer & cooler are optional

Mark

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