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Question For Those Who Use Twisted Wire Hook Hangers
19 replies to this topic
Posted 28 March 2011 - 06:50 PM
I'm using twisted stainless wire for my hook hangers and line ties in basswood. My question is how are you guys getting the drilled hole filled with epoxy? I started out with a hole that was just a little larger than the twisted wire. The resulting air bubble at the bottom of the hole made it almost impossible to fill. I went to a little larger hole and that made things a little easier, but at times still resulted in a partially filled hole due to air escaping. I've tried dripping the epoxy into the hole and shoving it in with a toothpick. Both of which are like trying to mop up a flooded basement with a cotton swab. Anyone have a better way?
Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:31 PM
I use a syringe that came with one of those ink cartridge refill kits it has a large gauge needle I just fill the hole from the bottom up with no bubbles. I just draw it up through the needle as best as I can, some times depending on the temp I thin it down with DA. When Im done I just flush it with acetone to clean it out Iv used the same one for over a year and still holding.
Edited by hillbilly1, 28 March 2011 - 07:35 PM.
Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:35 PM
I wanted to know this as well. For clarification, I assume you premix the epoxy then inject... I take it this is 30 min epoxy and not 5 min?
Note to slow down epoxy your could leave it in the fridge before you use it... I left 5 minute epoxy in the garage last fall and brought it inside to use and was suprised at how long my curing time was..
Edited by Central, 28 March 2011 - 07:38 PM.
Posted 28 March 2011 - 08:49 PM
I use a piece of thin ss wire to plunge epoxy into the hole, then butter the handmade screw eye with epoxy before I insert it. For one or two baits, I use 30 min epoxy. For large batches, I use Rod Bond epoxy paste. It takes a couple of hours before it begins to set up. I don't think you need to have the hole filled to the brim before you insert the screw eye, you just want the internal surfaces wetted out. There will be enough epoxy in the threads of a handmade screw eye to hold it securely. I've never once had one pulled out of a bait.
Posted 28 March 2011 - 09:29 PM
i do what he said ^
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:01 AM
I asked the same question a few years ago. I was using 2 parts epoxy putty to glue the twisted wires in, to make indestructible hook and tow eyes, but it was too much work to do. So I started to use epoxy, just as BobP says, with a piece of wire to help epoxy plunge into the hole (a small diameter hole, just 1.9 mm, or 0.0748"). I could not fill the hole with epoxy this way, but the epoxy in the hole and the epoxy which you put on the wire is enough to make a safe wire eye. Do not use Devcon 2 ton for this, because you will not be able to glue too many hook hangers from one mixing. I use now a 2 hours cure epoxy for this. The epoxy is safe even if you have to glue a less than 1" long twisted wire.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:10 AM
Thanks for the help everyone. First time I tried this I made the mistake of using 5 minute epoxy. That came real close to being a disaster. I'll try doing it the way ya'll have suggested.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:07 AM
Using a thin wire to push the epoxy down will work. Remember, when you drill a close fitting hole for your twist wire, most of the space in that hole will be filled with the twist wire, and any epoxy that's below it in the hole isn't doing anything anyway, except filling space.
One of the things I learned from doing epoxy hold downs on the job is to "unscrew" the twist wire as you insert it in the opposite direction of your twist. That way, once you coat the twisted wire, the threads are forcing the epoxy that's on them back down into the hole, instead of pulling it up and out.
I've never had a twist wire fail that I put in that way.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 10:15 AM
Thanks Mark. Seeing as how I have zero experience building baits I'm probably worrying about things that really don't need to be worried about. I've been trying to put enough epoxy into the hole that when the twisted wire goes in it forces some of the epoxy out the top. That was to make sure the hole was filled with epoxy. And having never used twisted wires as hook hangers and line ties I was a little worried about them pulling out if not done correctly. I did read the post someone made about doing a pull test using twisted stainless wire versus screw-in eyes though. Hopefully after building a few more lures I will gain experience and can stop worrying about things like this.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:02 PM
Ben, my concern with "wetting out" the hole with epoxy is to increase the bond but also to insure any wood surface that might possibly come in contact with water is protected. I use a set of millimeter bits and a Dremel to drill holes and I like a light friction fit (not too tight) for the screws. All this talk about how to do it is overkill 'cause it doesn't really take much epoxy to grip a wire screw hard enough that it will hold 'til Doomsday. Guess most of us tend to wear a belt PLUS suspenders as far as building wood baits.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 01:09 PM
I have been using a piece of SS wire, folded in two. This picks up more liquid in one scoop. I push the wire in and work it around, to make sure that the entire hole surface is wetted. I try and get as much in as possible, without wasting too much time, as I usually fill ten at a time. I coat the eye wire an insert, wiping away excess. Top off the hole, if required, with one more drop.
I tried a syringe without the needle yesterday, but was a disaster. The nozzle was too large. I am going to look for a syringe with a larger needle, to try Hillbilly1's idea. My syringe cleaned out just fine and is ready for re-use.
The only way you are going to feel comfortable with your technique, is to rig up your own pull test. It is very easy to set up. Scrap piece of wood, twisted eye each end, some strong thread, a large bucket of water and a mop, just in case. Don't make a special effort with the test piece, build it as you normally would. I usually leave the pull test running for 48 hours with a weight of 20Kg (44Lbs). I do pull tests on all my design changes. It gives me confidence in what I hand out. I just completed some tests on a new swimbait hinge idea. It failed and now resides in the bin.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:18 PM
Hey Ben, I use medium thickness superglue from Zap, it not only penatrates the wood but also gets in aroung the twisted wire. I have torn baits apart trying to get the hook hangers out!! And if a bass pulles the hanger out he can have it! Also use it for my belly weight.
Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:22 PM
I totally apologize for hijacking the post, but what kind of glue do you guys use for twisted screws on pvc? I have been using gorilla glue but it expands and makes a huge mess. Rob
Posted 30 March 2011 - 11:51 AM
I use the Zap gap filler glue a lot for hardware installation. Once I've put some drops in a hardware hole, I push in the hardware, and I spray it with the acelerator. It sets up quickly, and I can add more glue if the hole's not completely filled.
When I'm in a hurry, and don't want to wait for bondo to set up, I use the Zap as a filler over ballast holes, too. It doesn't come out as nice as bondo, but it let's me get a bait ready for testing right away.
I do find that it is a little more brittle than D2T, so I don't feel comfortable recommending it to other people, but I use it for my own baits. For my stuff, it holds up fine, and I have also had a very hard time removing something that's been set in it.
Posted 30 March 2011 - 12:52 PM
For filling ballast holes, I mix CA glue with microballoons. It is set rock solid in minutes. I carefully sand it back with a Dremel drum sander and finish with emery. If you have MB's, give it a try.
Posted 30 March 2011 - 12:59 PM
Nedyarb, I use whatever epoxy is handy as long as it hardens slowly enough to get the job done on the number of screw holes I have to do. My favorite is Rod Bond epoxy paste (slow cure formula), which you can mix up and use for several hours before it begins to set up. It's the Lazy Man's epoxy! It's also excellent for gluing lips into baits. I sometimes use Devcon Two Ton epoxy because I have it around for topcoating baits, but it begins to harden in 3-5 minutes. Doing just one bait? A 5 minute quick cure epoxy will work. I can see why you might not like Gorilla glue, with its black foaming action.
Posted 30 March 2011 - 04:45 PM
Just be careful with 5 minute epoxy. Devcon 5 minute epoxy is water resistant, not water proof. I had the unfortunate experience of having my rear twist wire hinge unscrew on a bait while I was fishing it. I had used Devcon 5 minute to set it. When I took the bait apart at home, the epoxy had turned punky and soft. It was bad on the other hinges, too, but they were double wires, so they didn't rotate out.
I don't know about other brand of 5 minute epoxies, but I only use Devcon 30 minute (D2T) because it is waterproof.
Posted 30 March 2011 - 05:08 PM
Sorry guys, yes it is 30min epoxy but not D2T (gettin kind of hard to find on the shelf) its the 30min epoxy from Hobby Town USA. for all I know it my be made by Devcon. I thin it just a little.
I dont use 5min on anything but Im starting to use 15min epoxy from the same place to do a quicker set if if need be.
Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:48 PM
Yea I am very carefull to make sure nothing doesn't come out! I always test at least one bait out of every 25 to make sure every thing ok.
Posted 10 April 2011 - 01:17 AM
i use twisted wire hook hangers and tie ins. To glue them i use cheap runny super glue. the kind that is 8/$1 at wally world. never had a problem - usually takes 2-3 applications since it soaks into the wood.