Salty's

4 Axis Lure Machine

31 posts in this topic

2 hp spindle, 1000 in/oz servo motors, 4 axis, 2 roughing, 2 finish, spindle control forward and reverse. Only 2 axis up so far, waiting for another servo drive for the back. This machine ran like this for 2 hours today without failure. Thought some of you guys might be interested in seeing this. This video is a quick program I wrote moving 9" of Z and 5" of X in multiple formats both single axis positioning and multi axis. The block on the top is the tool holder block not finished yet. The main spindle is a Vega lathe with a custom tail stock I designed for making lures. Should have the rear axis up within the next few weeks. Working on the spindle drive tomorrow, forward and reverse. This will be hopper fed by the end of the summer.

I been working on this machine for a year. The plans are all in my head. I never done this stuff before I started doing this 10 years ago. I'm a hack with a bridgeport and lots of nutso ideas :blink:

http://youtu.be/F1fn4w35hF8

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Looking very good, can't wait to see the wood chips flying.

I don't know how you do it without drawing plans. Respect to you. I have to draw everything, I even make shopping lists :rolleyes:

Are you going to write the code manually, or do you plan to use CAD to draw the patterns and generate the code?

Dave

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Hey Dave how are you. Chips flying soon enough :)

The code is done on a custom written piece of software, basically I can take any picture of good enough quality to make it a black & white then bring it into my program, tell it how thick, how long and presto in about 20 seconds I have a gcode file with a plot every xxx I tell it to plot. I run it at .005. What I can do is cut a sample in half, sand it flat, paint it white, scan it, photoshop it smaller and clean up any stray pixel/noise...then bring it into the program also as in previous. It's poor man's cam is what it is but you get much more cost savings than having to cad the whole thing. I kinda gave up on the banana thing btw, I am going to go back to it but viacad has a new upgrade of their program I have to get that will allow me to move it like I want to easier.

After I save the file on the main computer I shoot it on the network to the machine-takes about 30 seconds from scan to saving a gcode file. Depending on the quality and how it comes out is how long to get a workable image. If it's clean and done right then it takes less than 5 minutes to clean up the picture to eliminate alot of the ramping of pixels. Once it's on the lathe I can then take my human knowledge of running the ultimate duplicator and erase/re-write parts of the program that lets me make the machine move where I want it to minimize time and movements.

Someday I'd like to take a 2d cad file and bring it into the existing 2 axis lathe and see how that cuts. This new one is going to be sick. It's going to rough on the back and finish on the front with a few inch lag on it. Instead of having to make multiple passes I can make 2 passes in one shot...kaziiing!

Looking very good, can't wait to see the wood chips flying.

I don't know how you do it without drawing plans. Respect to you. I have to draw everything, I even make shopping lists :rolleyes:

Are you going to write the code manually, or do you plan to use CAD to draw the patterns and generate the code?

Dave

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I wish 3d was that easy :)

Sounds like you have everything well under control. Congrats.

Dave

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Looking very good, can't wait to see the wood chips flying.

I don't know how you do it without drawing plans. Respect to you. I have to draw everything, I even make shopping lists :rolleyes:

Are you going to write the code manually, or do you plan to use CAD to draw the patterns and generate the code?

Dave

CAD - Computer Aided Design (does design work)

CAM - Computer Aided Manufacturing (converts designs to code)

I'm sure you already knew that. :D

Where it becomes blurry is that many CAD packages have a CAM add-on available. TurboCad comes to mind. (Never used it. I use ViaCad 2d/3d and CamBam.)

Usually you want an engineer doing your CAD design and an experienced machinist doing yoru CAM work, but some of us hacks try to do both.

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CAD - Computer Aided Design (does design work)

CAM - Computer Aided Manufacturing (converts designs to code)

I'm sure you already knew that. :D

Where it becomes blurry is that many CAD packages have a CAM add-on available. TurboCad comes to mind. (Never used it. I use ViaCad 2d/3d and CamBam.)

Usually you want an engineer doing your CAD design and an experienced machinist doing yoru CAM work, but some of us hacks try to do both.

Valid point. I should have said "and CAM to generate the code".

My CAD software has a section for CNC machining code. I had a play with it a while back. It has a simulator, so you can see the cutter paths and the finish of the part. It was quite disturbing when half way through the program, the cutter went ape and ploughed through the middle of the part :o

Dave

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It was quite disturbing when half way through the program, the cutter went ape and ploughed through the middle of the part :o

Dave

Yeah even more so when the screaming of metal trying to cut metal at a horrific plunge and feed alerts you to it. LOL

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you can never hit estop fast enough :)

This machine has limit switches on all the axis. Should eliminate some crashes..

Yeah even more so when the screaming of metal trying to cut metal at a horrific plunge and feed alerts you to it. LOL

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you can never hit estop fast enough :)

This machine has limit switches on all the axis. Should eliminate some crashes..

I can say that just about every one of my crashes was my fault. Either not maintaining my machine often enough or poor CAM setup and not taking the time to zoom in and exam the tool paths.

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Got the spindle wired completely and working off the computer now through the variable freq drive. Full estop and everything. Calibrated all the axis today. Got to finish the cutter bit holders and we're making some chips.

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Got the spindle wired completely and working off the computer now through the variable freq drive. Full estop and everything. Calibrated all the axis today. Got to finish the cutter bit holders and we're making some chips.

Not much to say, but good luck. I am following with interest.

Is the plan to produce concentric, lathe type bodies, or will it also produce oval sections for hand carved type bodies? I suspect it will do both, with a slower spindle speed.

Dave

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This is just for circular bodies. Rear axis is rough and front axis is finish. It ran a program for a 4.5" lure this morning in 18 seconds complete..smokin! :unsure:

Not much to say, but good luck. I am following with interest.

Is the plan to produce concentric, lathe type bodies, or will it also produce oval sections for hand carved type bodies? I suspect it will do both, with a slower spindle speed.

Dave

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Ferrrrrocious :D

You'll need to hire a team to keep up with stock preparation.

Dave

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Even better Dave.. 5 axis

These are first shots. Lots more to do.

Ferrrrrocious :D

You'll need to hire a team to keep up with stock preparation.

Dave

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That works really well. I even feel sorry for the trees in your neighborhood.

It makes my duplicator seem silly at about 50 seconds an inch for non-concentric bodies. I have designed a concentric mode for the machine this time, but still won't be much better than 15 seconds per inch.

Great achievement, congrats.

Dave

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Is your "lathe" spindle a straight motor or is is it an indexable servo or stepper?

Do you have the cutter positioned up on one side and down on the other?

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Straight right now through a frequency drive with the computer controlling motion and speed via modbus. Am searching for a high speed servo (inexpensively) to change this to. Then I can just add another servo drive and eliminate the external drive wiring. Put a router or drill on the back axis :)

I ran about 30 lures this afternoon just playing around. This thing is sweet. The old lathe was 1.5 hp this one made a huge difference in speed and vibration/quality of cut. All of the original prep work of setting up the base square etc came out here. I can hold a .004 tolerance between the two machines on bodies. Not bad. The difference is this machine is much cleaner....it don't bog at all. This is also turning at 60% speed right now which is 3450x2, roughly 4500 rpm? Didn't calculate? Difference is when I turn the speed up I will bring the spindle up to 8000 and then can run the servos at a better speed.

The one issue I see here is how I encode my G code. Am going to have to use actual cad/cam to make a file now so it's linear movements, with constant velocity all the axis should move all the time. Right now it's g0 and g1 codes to points and the finish file is just a load of g1 movements.

Is your "lathe" spindle a straight motor or is is it an indexable servo or stepper?

Do you have the cutter positioned up on one side and down on the other?

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Hello Salty

Just found this thread - watched your videos - very impressive......

I am a wood tuner - just barely - still learning my lathe, etc - speed control, tool manipulation, etc is all done by hand.

Naturally - I has questions....

Are you using carbide tools?

How smooth a finish can you get?

Do you have the equivalent of a skew chisel for a cutter?

Your wood is what species?

Thanks

UG

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I'm not Salty, but I can answer one question. The finish is as smooth as he cares to make it depending on the resolution and stepover when doing CAM and the quality of the source file. I would suspect for wood plugs its probably more efficient to leave it slightly rough and sand rather than to use a ton of machine time to get a near perfect finish.

Hello Salty

Just found this thread - watched your videos - very impressive......

I am a wood tuner - just barely - still learning my lathe, etc - speed control, tool manipulation, etc is all done by hand.

Naturally - I has questions....

Are you using carbide tools?

How smooth a finish can you get?

Do you have the equivalent of a skew chisel for a cutter?

Your wood is what species?

Thanks

UG

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Wood species varies from pine to cedars to birch and maples.

Finish is dependent on how you run the machine. If I want to run it wide open it's going to give a much rougher cut. A slower speed will give you a cut that requires only 120 grit paper to sand. Like this:

That's a bit over 7000 rpm, cutting at 4 speeds in the program as you can watch from the speedups and slowdowns. Yellow Birch rough to finish one pass with 2 axis. This particular body can be done pretty efficiently and doesn't need the whole machine. I can do these in 14 seconds each un-sanded with a 80-100 grit sand finish needed or I can slow it down a bit and save some time sanding like this.

Tooling is all carbide. This particular bit has over 1000 bodies on it already and is just starting to get dull. No hard crashes though.

I'm not Salty, but I can answer one question. The finish is as smooth as he cares to make it depending on the resolution and stepover when doing CAM and the quality of the source file. I would suspect for wood plugs its probably more efficient to leave it slightly rough and sand rather than to use a ton of machine time to get a near perfect finish.

Edited by Salty's

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