Flat Sided Question
15 replies to this topic
Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:43 PM
i have just started to make my own crankbaits and i'm trying to make some flat sided balsa baits similar to alot of the popular ones that come out of east tennessee. first one i made didnt run very well at all, ran on its side. i was wondering if you guys had any tips for me to get the lures to run right. The bill and line tie is straight and the ballast is centered and when i set it in the water it sits straight up and down in the water but still runs one its side real bad. I used one of the 4 gram pre made belly weights and its in the lowest part of the belly. I think the weight of the belly weight is a hair over 1/8th of and ounce an the whole bait weighs just a hair short of 3/8ths of an ounce without the hooks. I was just wondering what suggestions yall might suggest to get em to run straight. I know there are alot of variables that go into getting one to run straight, i have some friends that have bought some of the high dollar baits from tennessee and they didnt run straight. Maybe its the way i am tying the bait to the line? I am using a snap ring on my split ring, should i not use this and just tie to the split ring or not use a split ring and just tie to the front line tie in the bait? i am using oval split rings on my line tie would that effect anything? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:56 PM
I don't think the snap ring is causing your problem, but I do not see the point of the split ring if you are using a snap ring. I like the snap ring, so that I can change baits in a couple of seconds, but I have to force myself to tie a fresh knot on the snap ring occasionally.
It would really help if you posted a few pics of your lure, side view, view of the lip and a view of the belly. Your problem is almost certainly going to be tow eye position.
Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:15 AM
i'll try to get some pics on here today sometime i just finished a few more baits and i'll post pics on here of them and see what you think they have different lips and line tie is a little different on some and maybe you can tell me some mistakes i might have made. havent gotten to test the new ones yet might go to the neighbors pool if they will let me.
Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:13 PM
heres a few pics there not the best, try not to laugh at my painting skills which arent very good
Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:29 PM
Try looking at the photos from a few feet away and visualize the amount of bill surface is on the left and right side of the lure center line and line tie.. It may be that more of the bill surface is on one side. In the last photo it looks to me like there's more bill on one side which will make the lure turn sideways.It maybe just the way the pic was taken but if there is more bill grab of water on one side than the other side it will turn the lure.
Edited by EdL, 31 July 2011 - 04:32 PM.
Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:13 PM
The lure looks very good. The bill looks off a little. Good start . Doug
Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:45 PM
yeah after looking at a couple of em i think the bills may be off slightly on a few of em. do you think this can be corrected by bending the line tie? i wont be able to test any of em out till the end of the week. what kind of methods do yall use to make sure the bill is straight, i have pretty good eyes but i dont know if they slid alittle before the epoxy could dry, i used 30 min slow cure i got from hobbytown what do you guys use to install the bills? i might have to make a bunch and so i know at least a couple of em will run straight.
Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:15 PM
Having not made my own baits I can offer suggestions not solutions. Like Ed said the bill does seem a bit off. I would suggest using a micrometer, start at the base of the bill prior to gluing. Mark the centerline of the base, then mark the centerline of the bill at the widest point. Using a mechanical pencil and straight edge draw a line from base to tip using the marked spots as guides. On your bait mark the center of the nose or cut. Now when you glue you have a visual line up tool that after the glue dries can be easily erased from the bill.
Hope this helps, or gives you some ideas. bb
Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:17 PM
On the ones you built try eyeballing the bill and mark with a pencil and trim the excess side with a file.
For your new ones considder makeing a jig holder. I seem to remember that vodkman came up with jig or tool to hold the bill in place while the epoxy sets up. Try doing a search on this forum. I'm thinking maybe a piece of 1 x 4 with a bunch of finishing nails to hold the bait up and hold the bill aligned. This is something I will try on my next bill. I too had some bills misaligned on the last batch so the lures don't run true. They didn't turn sideways but ran to one side. I'm still on the learning curve myself. As far as the paint job don't worry. I don't think the fish will critique it as much as you. I have some baits that have the paint job scratched and scraped up quite a bit and still catch some on them while I have some nice "pretty ones" that have yet to get a bite. Just keep practicing and you will get it down.
Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:53 PM
I have just built a bunch of flat sided prototypes for another TU member, the object being to find more action. I experimented with ballast location and eye location, keeping body shape and lip size, shape and angle constant. The body shape that I was working with was very similar to yours. The lip was the same shape, except yours looks a little longer.
What I discovered, having never built flat sided baits before, is that they are very forgiving and difficult to make one that doesn’t swim, although the action is tighter or narrower than a round bodied lure.
I was very surprised how low I could fit the tow eye and still get the lure to swim, even well below the body and it still swam. However, they did not like high eye positions and this is your problem. I found the best position was tight in the corner, between the body and the lip. On a longer lip like yours, you may even have to drop the eye further, actually down ON the lip, but I find this a messy construction and would rather shorten the lip rather than do that.
Ballast location wasn’t a big issue, just keep the ballast low down. Moving the ballast fore and aft changes the shape of the action. I quite like a rear ballast action, but the pay off is that the lure sits nose up. There is nothing wrong with your ballast location.
The lures that you have that don’t swim, are an opportunity to experiment and learn, seeing as they are not fishable, you might as well put them to some use. Drill a small hole towards the top of the lip and push the tag ends of a loop of wire through and bend the tags over. Attach to this temporary eye and test swim. Try a few different hole positions and note the effects.
A lot of builders just starting out, including myself, think that it looks easy to do, just build a lure that looks like a lure and it will swim like a lure. You have omitted the prototyping stage, were you build a few bodies and try the weights and eyes in different positions (NO PAINT), until you find the action that you like. Always fit your hooks for swim tests, hooks are a part of the ballast system. On early prototypes, I like to fit an extended eye, so that I can bend it up or down, to find the best position, this saves a few builds.
As for lip alignment, it was not me, but Hazmail who posted the lip aligner. here is the link.
Lip alignment is something that I also struggle with. The problem is that you are dealing with compound curves and there are optical illusions happening, especially if your carving is not exactly balanced and symmetrical. It should be easy to at least make the lip symmetrical, using patterns and/or templates.
My method, when I am not being lazy, is to draw three parallel lines, full length of a sheet of A4 paper, about ¾” spacing. Place the paper on your table. Close one eye and hold the lure half way between the paper and your eye. Align the body on the middle line and adjust the distance so that the edges of the lip align with the outer lines. This will help you see any errors.
Edited by Vodkaman, 31 July 2011 - 09:57 PM.
Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:37 AM
On a couple of the baits, it looks to me that the lips are too long to have the line tie in the nose. Nose line ties are fine for shallow baits but for medium and deep divers, you need to put the line tie out on the lip surface.
I don't know of a 100% sure way of centering lips and am not enough of a metal worker to make a centering jig, but there are a couple of considerations if you do it "by sight". First, it is hard to center a lip in a bait that is not symmetrical side-to-side. Symmetry makes for good bodies, good lips, and good crankbait performance. There's no way to align a lip if you have no trued-up sight line anywhere on the bait to reference it against. So good symmetrical bodies make for good lip alignment. I like to flip the bait on it's back and sight down the center of the belly. Look at how much of the lip you can see on each side and adjust to make it equal. Alternatively, if you have a laser level, shoot it down the belly and the laser should hit the tail hanger, the belly hanger, and the center of the lip. If you were smart enough to mark a center point on the tip of the lip, it becomes pretty obvious how to center it with a laser.
Posted 01 August 2011 - 08:14 AM
The bill is too long and wide for the line tie in the nose. For that bait I would use a bill that sticks out from the nose no more than
1/2 inch. I would also make the bill just slightly wider than the bait. You have made a very good start with that little bait, just tweak the bill size and I'm sure the next one will run great. Get ride of the split ring, no need for it when using a snap ring.
Posted 01 August 2011 - 11:44 AM
Thanks Vodkaman for correcting my bad assumption. Apologies to Hazmail for the mix up. Both of you guys do such great builds and offer so much help to everyone my head spins.
Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:17 PM
I have to agree with benton B. I don't have nearly the experience as a lot of these guys, but I had pretty much the same problem on one of the baits I built. While it wouldn't turn completely over on it's side, it would run off to one side or the other pretty drastically. Trimming the bill made all the difference in the world.
Posted 10 August 2011 - 06:44 PM
ive made a ton of flat sides, the bill is too long for your line tie location shorten the lip and you will notice a difference