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Posted 16 September 2011 - 03:17 PM
@ Rayburn Guy
Sorry for having found this thread a bit late , Ben , .......just mean to tell you to check out this Dutch site(english version) , a few design sketches and construction plans of gliders(in Europe we call them jerkbaits) to be found in there :
My favourites there are "Roach" aka "Heiddy" and the lathe-turned "Divani Zig-Zag" , both are easy to build .
One thing to consider about adapting the pike lure sizes to smaller bass sizes is to use more buoyant wood to be able to place sufficient ballast for proper glide performance , .....I'm just making two 2 1/4" "Heiddy" versions of PVC decking ,...... wonder whether they'd perform in the end .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 16 September 2011 - 03:50 PM
Thanks Dieter. I bookmarked the link. Let us know when you get the smaller gliders working. I'd like to see them.
Posted 17 September 2011 - 02:57 PM
Took a few pictures this evening showing that little PVC glider prototype , ......actually it is 63mm(2 1/2") in length , not 2 1/4" as I've said before .
The width scratches 10mm .
I've used 1mm thick roofing leadsheet for ballast , ....with these leadpieces it sinks real slow and level in a waterbucket , ......but would surely sink faster after having them glued in and having finally painted the lure .
The big question is , whether it would perform well in the end , .......usually the ballast of gliders is concentrated in weightholes fore and aft or just inside of only one belly hole , .........in this case the ballast passes along almost the entire length of the lure , so I wonder , which effect this would have on the swimming action later ?
It is just very fast and convinient making and trimming these little PVC blanks , just cutting the lead sheet to approbiate sizes and test the fall rate and position in a water bucket until satisfied ,..... no need for finding out about lead slug sizes and locations and where to drill the holes , .....just placing the lead sheet into the slot of the wire form , it's so simple , ........BUT WOULD IT WORK OUT ???
Glued in the harness and ballast by now , gonna trim the excess glue on Monday and in case of success I'm gonna make a little video of that blank in action somewhen during next week , ...really eager to know , whether it would perform this way .
greetz , Dieter
Edited by diemai, 17 September 2011 - 03:00 PM.
Posted 17 September 2011 - 03:24 PM
Looks good Dieter. Like the shape you've chosen. Will be looking forward to hearing how it does when you test it. Hopefully it will swim well so you'll make a video.
Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:42 PM
I made the body of the 11 cm version a couple of years ago but never finished it. I drilled it very crooked and threw it on the pile of stuff that needed to be filled and redrilled. Now that I have seen yours, I may go out to the garage tomorrow and try again. I have some 1" x 2" poplar that may produce a very lively version.
Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:59 PM
Just one question about the Roach glider......
Is there a flat on the periphery of the lure (in your version) or is the rounding a full dome? I have often been tempted to do a full round but I am not sure what it will do to the swimming action......if anything at all.
Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:38 AM
Goody, a new Dieter vid, I was getting withdrawal symptoms. The bait looks great and I am sure you will have success.
Posted 18 September 2011 - 03:24 PM
@ Sonny. Barile
That bait's periphery is fully rounded , .......most of these flat gliders are made like this , except if a kinda diving plane is needed on floating/diving models .
But I also have one or two homemades made by a Belgian guy , which are kept flat along their outline , just the cornes are slightly broken , .......in my opinion their action is not as fluent and pronounced as with gliders made more streamlined with their rounded periphery .
Sharp corners might also cause problems about proper adhesion of epoxy topcoats .
Hope the symptoms are not that bad , Dave , ........I'm presently carving on dozens of different blanks , but no time to finish them and make testing videos ,.......gotta wait for the winter break !
@ Rayburn Guy
That blank's shape I've made after my memory , supposed to be close to that "Roach" aka "Heiddy" from that Dutch site , ........actually I've cut it from a 20mm thick PVC board and after split the cut-out into halves with a fine grade saw ,....... but I don't wanna procceed with the twin before having tested this glider version , ....if it should not work out , I can still cut a lipslot into the second blank and render it into a crankbait .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 18 September 2011 - 04:11 PM
The few I had made a while back only had small radii on the edges because that is what the plans called for. The edges would always chip and lose paint so I can see what you mean. I will try the next with full radii. maybe the action will get a little bit more lively.
Posted 18 September 2011 - 05:00 PM
I think that glider will work fine. That particular shape is one of the easiest to get to work. With it being so short and light though, the glide will be very narrow and tight.
Edited by RiverMan, 18 September 2011 - 05:00 PM.
Posted 19 September 2011 - 05:40 AM
Hi , folks ,
..............just made my little testing video this morning , .......the lures do not swim very well this way .
To me this is evidence , that the ballast of glidebaits MUST be CONCENTRATED at certain locations of the belly to achieve a nice glide .
I've just though , that the process of balancing these kinda baits would be a little easier by glueing in sheet , ....also with baits of this small size there probably might not be enough room for wider leadholes .
Anyway , I've learned from it !
...........not only that topcoats are more subject to chipping off from sharper edges , ....some guys on a German site wrote that the still liquid epoxy would not easily set at such edges but flow towards more even planes and finally set there , .........they had observed this even running their lures in rotisseries !
greetz , Dieter
Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:37 AM
I don't make underwater gliders, but the weighting theory should be the same as for top waters, I think.
I test my topwater glider weighting on my bench by placing the lure, on it's side, over a round wood dowel, and moving it until it's balanced.
For me, ideal gliding weighting has the center of gravity about 2/3rds of the way to the tail.
That way, the rear of the lure has more weight, and more inertia, than the front, so, as the force of the water slows the front, the reat still moves, and turns the lure as it tries to pass the front.
For topwaters, how the lures hang at rest in the water is a good indication of how they will perform, so I tank test them with all the split rings and hooks in place. The smaller the lure, the more vertical I want it to hang in the water. The largest lures, 6-8", hang almost horizontal, with just the top of the front section above the water.
4" and under lures hang down at about 80 degrees from horizontal, with the tail just a small bit up.
I bought some unpainted Sammie lure bodies from Predator Bass (great lures) and found they needed about a gram of ballast added to the rear to achieve the proper hang in the test tank.
The extra down hang is critical in allowing the lures to walk properly, especially when there's wind chop, or boat wakes.
Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:13 AM
Sorry your experiment did not work to your satisfaction. But I could definitely see the bait wanting to dart from side to side. I have not built any of this kind of design before, but imagine that a small tub is not ideal for testing. I think you should give them one more test in open water, before retiring them.
Posted 19 September 2011 - 08:59 PM
Dieter.....You failed at making a little glider, but you succeeded in making a great little twitch bait. That would be great for tossing between close structures in the shallows.
The pvc foam you used, would it hold up to belt sander? or would it melt down?
Posted 19 September 2011 - 11:11 PM
The reason the glider didn't work is because the material you used is too thin. You said it was 9.5mm which is less than a half inch in width. Get a material that is 3/4" in thickness (about 20mm) and your lure will work. I have weighted gliders along the entire bottom of the lure with lead and they work fine. Some of the most well known builders use a series of holes along the entire belly of the lure. Again, the lure you made though is so short that there won't be much glide, just a quick turn in each direction. If you want a longer glide you will need a larger lure with more mass and momentum to carry it forward with each turn. I always enjoy your videos, thank you for posting it.
Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:47 AM
@ mark poulson
Thanks a lot for your describtions on topwater gliders , ......I did not know yet , that differently sized baits should probably have a different hang angle .
Balancing a topwater glider is still a bit different compared to sinking gliders IMO , ........these are said to best sink in a horizontal level to look more natural .
Their glide action is also influenced by body shape , more than with topwaters , .....its a bit hard to explain , but I've got the feeling , that on some designs it's the lead ballast is causing the lure to dart sidewards and on other rather more the shape or size of the head portion(off course in connection with the ballast) , ........the results are comparable , anyway .
I'm aware of the issues when tub testing glider baits , Dave, ..........first due to space reasons , as you've stated and second , ......I'm using a very soft ice rod with mono line , not of advantage as well !
I will surely finish and throw them some day , .......as I said in the vid , ......they might still catch !
Absolutely no issues sanding this PVC hardfoam of mine ,........ worked it down on a grinding wheel at work and also on a 40grit sanding disc at home , ....I guess , before it MIGHT start to melt , one oughta "dust" one yard length or two of it extremely fast , ...if at all !
As said before , I will paint these lure , and still throw them !
Its only that I tried to downsize proven , larger lures in about scale , ......I will try it some day to make a wider version to try , .......I have made some of such quite accurately downscaled gliders(with their ballast concentrated on one or two spots) before , they all did not perform as well as their "bigger brothers" .
And off course , a lack of length also means less guidance through the water , ....but at least I had hoped for the lures to swim sharper curves , did not expect long glides from the start !
Ben , ...looks like I've probably hijacked your thread a bit , ........sorry that it turned out to be , wasn't my intention !
greetz , Dieter
Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:34 AM
No worries Dieter. I'm always glad to read anything you've got to say and really enjoy watching your videos. I always learn something.
Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:57 PM
Yes and me too. I like to hear what you are working on. You are so free with your knowledge and experience that it would be a sad day if someone were to be put off by your interactions.
Posted 21 September 2011 - 12:55 AM
You make me blush , guys , ...thanks a lot !
greetz , Dieter