A-Mac

Topwater Action

22 posts in this topic

Hey guys,

I figured I would tinker with topwater lures for a change. I've been working on a walk-the-dog type lure. My proto was made out of pvc, which seemed to show that the lure at least had potential. The walk the dog action is very wide and can be worked several times without covering much distance...

Now for the problem, this lure is very difficult to get to walk. When the lure actually does start to walk, its unreal (and caught a couple nice fish at lake fork while testing :). But getting it started is tricky. The lure will have a tendency to nose down and dig sometimes instead of walk (especially if there is any wind). I'm currently whittlin' another one out of cedar to see if this makes a difference. I get the feeling that having some density to the lure allows for the wide walk the dog action; however, I think it may counter with the potential for the lure to take a dive on occasion. My next step is balsa if the cedar also nose dives. I just don't want to kill the wide action with a lighter density lure. At least this is my assumption based on comparing to the hollow plastic zara spook.

Originally I weighted this lure exactly like a zara spook and put the line placement in the exact same spot. The line tie sat just above the water, just like the spook. I have tried several line tie angles almost to a vertical line tie... the lure stayed on the surface better, but action was severely hindered. I'm under the impression that since the lure does walk on occasion that the density of the lure body is the issue... at least that is what I hope. It may just be the design though Oh, and I am using mono for the line.

What are your guys opinions?

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj100/amcalexa/P9040190.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj100/amcalexa/tallythwackerfish.jpg

Thanks

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You said the line tie was setting just above the water. Looking at the shape of the lure and where the line tie is located it looks to me as if the bait is sitting almost level on the surface. Have you tried weighting it so the tail sets slightly down? I've only built a few top water lures with the walk the dog action, but have noticed that where the ballast is placed can be very important.

Nice looking bait by the way.

Ben

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thanks & yes rayburnguy, ~3.1g of weight is set posterior to the rear treble hook. I have tried more weight, but it hurt the action considerably and didn't help the original problem.

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What type of rod and line are you fishing it on? Sometimes that can make a huge difference. I built a dog walking top water for a friend and he had trouble getting it to walk until he found the right rod and line combo. The bait was only 3 1/2" long and it took a rod with a light tip and monofilament line to make it work right. After coming up with the right combo it worked great and had a nice side to side action with a long glide between side to side movements.

You might also try moving the line tie further down if that won't put it under the water level. That was another problem I had when building my first top water walker. The first one I built had a great walking action, but would end up underwater about halfway back to the boat. It still walked even being underwater so I knew something was both right and wrong about it. Moving the line tie farther down solved the problem of it becoming a sub-surface walker.

Ben

Edited by RayburnGuy

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That's a really nice looking lure. I like it a lot.

For my topwaters, and for lures like the Sammie, Megabass DogX, and Pupfish, the area directly below the head, from the line tie down to the hook hanger, is a sloped flat, almost like an inverted ramp, and the rest of the underside of the lure is rounded.

I wonder if the interuption of the area between the line tie and the front hook by the "neck" gap has something to do with how it walks.

You could probably test this idea by building up the gap with some silicone caulking to see if it helps. Silicone doesn't stick to anything except itself and flat metal surfaces, so it should be entirely reversible.

Also, I'm wondering if the rigid tail fin is acting like a rudder, fighting the side to side walking action.

I hope you work this out, so I can copy your idea!!! Hahaha

Edited by mark poulson

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Kewl bait, Really nice on the eyes... I think Mark probably nailed this one already... Sort of... The tail section from 2/3rds past the last hook slims down on the sides with not too much underside mass... Then the tail extends from this section. As mark said "acting like a rudder"... I would modify this bait by reducing the lower part of the tail in small increments Throwing the lure several times between trimmings or shavings.... Think of it like this, When you're on your trolling motor, and the big motor is out of the water the boat wants to swing and yaw back and forth till you put the big motor down. Also as wacky as it sounds you may want to try throwing this bait on a medium to medium heavy/med fast spinning rod. Let us know how it turns out.

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good suggestions. Bad thing is this Texas drought has the nearest ponds all dried up! I'm building a couple different variations of the lure to try out again. One of which is to not narrow the tail (caudal peduncle for you fish headz!) as much because you guys may be absolutely right with the rudder action. The end of the tail does flair out to hold the plastic fin. I like the tail, and its my main reason for doing a topwater, so it will be the last thing I modify. I'm thinking by making the rear section more cone shaped (like a spook) may help. Hopefully more testing tomorrow.

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That's a really nice looking lure. I like it a lot.

For my topwaters, and for lures like the Sammie, Megabass DogX, and Pupfish, the area directly below the head, from the line tie down to the hook hanger, is a sloped flat, almost like an inverted ramp, and the rest of the underside of the lure is rounded.

I wonder if the interuption of the area between the line tie and the front hook by the "neck" gap has something to do with how it walks.

You could probably test this idea by building up the gap with some silicone caulking to see if it helps. Silicone doesn't stick to anything except itself and flat metal surfaces, so it should be entirely reversible.

Also, I'm wondering if the rigid tail fin is acting like a rudder, fighting the side to side walking action.

I hope you work this out, so I can copy your idea!!! Hahaha

Good news mark! The solution to the lure was glue, paint, clear coat, and especially quality hooks!. Oh, eye screws were a no no, simply shove the sharp side of a safety pin (emphasis on NO glue!) in for best action! Oh, use about 15grams of weight too. :D

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Good news mark! The solution to the lure was glue, paint, clear coat, and especially quality hooks!. Oh, eye screws were a no no, simply shove the sharp side of a safety pin (emphasis on NO glue!) in for best action! Oh, use about 15grams of weight too. :D

Hahaha... :wink:

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haven't quite got all the bugs out yet... hoping to do some testing with a cedar version tomorrow

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Great looking lure, wish I had one. I do my dog walking with 40-50 # Spider Wire Stealth, it floats better. Just for me, if I bought the lure, I would cut the tail off. Still wish I had one, great looking head section. Musky Glenn

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Thanks musky glenn. I haven't tried the braid yet, but I've heard from a couple people that it helps on some topwaters

As for mine, cedar version test went well. there was no diving and the lure walked much easier. I think the pvc had a wider side to side distance than the cedar. But the cedar still had a wider walk than a spook. the lure did weigh much less (it was just sealed... no paint or clear). Nevertheless, I'm happy with the results. I will try tinkering with a couple other woods, perhaps more dense than cedar. it is reassuring that i don't have to chuck my design into the POS failed lure designs box.

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A-Mac, Glad to hear the "Cedar" is working better for ya! Here's some possible tips for your lure "Completion"...

1. Get 6 Plastic Top thumbtacks The BIG ones

2. Drill a 1/8" hole from one side to the other on each of them

3. Attach a 10mm split ring to each of these.

4. On one Split ringed tack attach 3 foot of 120lb stainless steel leader. Attaching a #2 Swivel to the end.

5. Get 5ea 2/0 Salt water Treble Hooks, The Beefier the better! Attach these to the remaining Tacks

6. The "Leadered Tack" stick in the nose, then holding the Lure (and this is important) Perfectly level Stick one tacked hook in the tail, and the other 4 on the sides 2 to a side down the lateral line...

7. Oh I must mention, You must attach this with the "Double Barreled Overhanded Polymer Slip Knot"!

BTW, I understand you may be looking for a "Denser" wood than cedar... I heard "Petrified Wood" is Hard to beat!!! :halo::P

Oh come on you smiled at least once didn't ya? Ask Ben about his " Flying Devils Horse Helicopter Lure" I helped him Design.....

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Oh yea..........about that " Flying Devils Horse Helicopter Lure".........tried it out in the bathtub and the danged thing took off, flew into the bathroom mirror breaking it into a million pieces (being barefoot at the time was a nice addition) and then made a couple passes at my head before getting so tangled up in the shower curtain that I eventually ripped the shower curtain off the curtain rod and carried it outside to set fire to the whole mess. Another thing I learned is that you can never find all the tiny shards of a broken mirror with 57 year old eyes. The sense of feeling in my feet still works quite well though. :pissed::censored::pissed:

Ben

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haha... i think your loosing me on your suggestions! I'm sure such a thought out process must be used on the "perfect lure." Please show an example of this beast of the water world! Either an illustration or a rare pic of just one of your many lures with this design would certainly help!

As for the helicopter devil horse, you must be on a heck of a prescription to be experiencing this! You told the doc you had glaucoma didn't you! :D

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Oh yea..........about that " Flying Devils Horse Helicopter Lure".........tried it out in the bathtub and the danged thing took off, flew into the bathroom mirror breaking it into a million pieces (being barefoot at the time was a nice addition) and then made a couple passes at my head before getting so tangled up in the shower curtain that I eventually ripped the shower curtain off the curtain rod and carried it outside to set fire to the whole mess. Another thing I learned is that you can never find all the tiny shards of a broken mirror with 57 year old eyes. The sense of feeling in my feet still works quite well though. :pissed::censored::pissed:

Ben

Ben,

It took me years to get over Psycho, and start showering again, and then you have to go a post a horror like that!

It's back to sponge baths for me, I guess. Hahaha

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Ben,

It took me years to get over Psycho, and start showering again, and then you have to go a post a horror like that!

It's back to sponge baths for me, I guess. Hahaha

No worries Mark. Just shower with a friend. It'll save water too. :D

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