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Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:53 PM
I've been practicing foiling for a few days now, and, with invaluable help from Ben, I did six baits that were PURR-FECT! No wrinkles, no belemishes of any type. I was so proud of myself. So, the next step is to seal them so I can detail the back and belly. I dipped them in the Garco and all hell broke loose. Wrinkles were everywhere from head to tail.....everywhere except the back and belly. So, I proceeded to strip them by soaking in Xylene (the recommended thinner for this product). The clear coat and the decal came right off, but, getting that foil off was a female dog. My guess is that there was a reaction with the decal because there were no wrinkles in the foil, itself. I dipped one bait that had a water slide decal (no foil) on it and the same thing happened. I dipped a bait that was just painted with Createx (no decal or foil) and it was spotless.....until I recoated it. I'm stumped! Any thoughts?
NOTE: Like Brad mentioned....this stuff does cure hard.
Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:20 PM
Did you forget to put that coat of epoxy on I was telling you about?
Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:47 PM
I haven't gotten into the epoxy as of yet with the turner and all that. I'm really disappointed that the Garco did not work.
Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:50 PM
Some things with this coating I've noticed. 1. Like usual make sure your paint is very dry, I've noticed paint crackling when I rush the process, 2. When coating a second time, you have to make sure the 1st coat is dry, and set very well, or as the second coat cures and starts to dry, it crackles the heck out of the first coat! Seems any type of moisture on the bait makes the Garco act in reverse, drying from the inside out! not a good thing...
Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:38 PM
I waited 5 days before I recoated that one lure. I sanded it just short of cutting through to the paint...and it still curled. I doubt seriously that I'm using that stuff anymore.
Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:10 PM
If you don't do the step of the process with the epoxy and the lure turner you will not hide the edges of the foil. Just dipping in a product and hanging it up to dry will not hide the raised edges of the foil as you've skipped the self leveling properties of the epoxy. Another thing the epoxy will do is protect whatever effects your top coat is having on the underlying image and paint.
I'm not saying another type of foiling process won't work, but when you skip the epoxy/lure turner step in this one your missing a very important part of this way of foiling a bait. Especially if you want a smooth, clean looking lure. I was told a long time ago that if you just cover up crap all your going to get is a bigger pile of crap.
Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:27 PM
I guess it depends on how deep you bury it to begin with.
Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:31 AM
Okay, guys...I've had this Garco urethane for a few weeks now. I've used it a time or two just experimenting. I opened the can tonight and noticed that it has formed a skim on the surface. I thought, Rut Row! I punched through the film and the stuff below seemed to be the same as it was when I first got it. With it skimming over, does this mean that it is no longer any good?
Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:18 AM
You can still use it as long as it's liquid - which, honestly, probably won't be as long as you'd like. When it develops a skin, you can still get MCU from under the skin and use it. I would siphon some off from below the skin and use it to brush finish on lures. If you can clear off the skin, you can still dip but be careful of getting any globs of finish on the lure. Once MCU starts to cure in the can, there's nothing much you can do to stop it from progressing. That's why you read recommendations to decant it into several air tight jars and use Bloxygen every time you close one of the containers. And it's why you should not let MCU drip back into the container after you dip a lure into it - those drops pick up moisture. Sounds a little extreme, right? Well, it is but it's what you need to do it if you want to use most of the stuff before it becomes a glob of useless MCU jelly.
Edited by BobP, 02 December 2011 - 01:19 AM.
Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:27 AM
Thanks for not sayin' "I told ya so", Bob, because you did. I didn't know not to let it drip back in the can, tho. That might sound petty, but, it certainly makes sense. I've learned from this experience. If $25 is all it costs...I can handle that.
Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:11 AM
You can thin any of the epoxies with acetone do it all the time .
Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:21 AM
It may be, that if the dry time is a little longer than S81, its total cure time may also be a little longer. With DN Original (the stuff that morphed into S-81) total cure was considered to be 4 weeks, although using it you might never recognize that. And with curing, all moisture-cure urethanes are all going to have that characteristic of an extended 95% to 100% cure. When it comes to trolling, sharp hooks are going to scratch any finish, however slightly (as with S-81), unless the hooks are Tee'd where the hook points won't contact the finish.
As far as storage methods go, once again, moisture-cure urethane is moisture-cure urethane. The most foolproof method of dealing with the storage aspect is the tap-the-can method, which will eliminate the need even for Bloxygen, if you're brushing it on or spraying it, and tapping only enough for each usage. If you're dipping it, you need Bloxygen.
And, as far as tapping-the-can goes, David Sullivan, who introduced me and TU to this method of storing moisture-cure product, found to his amazement, that upon finishing his first entire can this way that when he removed the top of the can that it was clean as a whistle inside, that no curing whatsoever had gone on during the months of being tapped for brushing just a few baits at a time. I don't see how storage and use can get any simpler than that.
Like Ben said, the coat of epoxy over foil is a step that cannot be skipped, if you're using a moisture cure product as your topcoat!
Edited by Lure--Prof, 02 December 2011 - 07:27 AM.
Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:29 AM
I always wondered how the drip method worked by allowing mcu to come out of the can and not letting air into the can, seems to me there would be a vacuum created that wouldn't allow any mcu to leave the can. Just wondering out loud. Musky Glenn
Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:25 AM
Have you tried "T"ing your belly treble to cut down on hook rash when you're trolling?
Also, a coating of Sally Hansen Hard as Nails clear nail polish in the hook swing area helps a lot, too.
Posted 04 December 2011 - 05:38 PM
If by teeing you mean, installing the hook so the saddle between trebles where the two trebles lay flat against the lure and the the third is straight down then yes, I do that with all the hooks I attach. The Hook rash is on the sides not the bottom. After using this lure all weekend and another of the same design coated with S81 you could see the difference immediately. After catching several smaller bass (whites,Blacks and stripes) up to 3 pounds the Garco was peeling, and the DN was barely marked.
Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:33 PM
I actually bend the two hooks that rub against the belly out until they are flat+-, so they form a "T" with the front hook when you look down at the treble from the top, and that cuts down hook rash 90%. Bend them slowly, with the hook eye in one pair of pliers, and bend the other two hooks out one at a time. Overbending will cause them to break, but I've never had a "T"ed hook break on a fish. Just be sure to hold the hook you're bending out near the hook bend, so there is plenty of hook to absorb the bend.
I got that tip from a TU member who trolls a lot for walleye. He said, before he learned that trick, a crank would be worn out after one day of trolling. The wood ones would be worn into the wood, and the plastic ones would be worn through the plastic on the sides.
But, once he started "T"ing his hooks, no more worn out cranks.
I've heard nothing but good things about DN. I just don't want the hastle of having to keep it from setting up every time it's been opened, or not letting drips back into the dipping jar.
Edited by mark poulson, 04 December 2011 - 08:35 PM.
Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:41 AM
Nope, haven't tried that, but will. Thanks... As far as the DN, yeah the no drip back is a big waste, and as far as the setting up, I use wine preserver now. A lot cheaper than "Bloxygen" in the long run, but with the same results. The only issue I have with it anymore is the wrinkling when I try rushing multiple coats.