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28 replies to this topic
Posted 14 April 2004 - 05:06 PM
yea i hear about you from Gene all the time. i think he idolizes you......lol
Posted 14 April 2004 - 05:08 PM
yeah...LOL....Gene is cool....i hope he doesn't idolize me...LOL
Posted 14 April 2004 - 07:35 PM
Been on this board since the day it started and this is the first string of disagreements I have personally read..it was bound to happen eventually.
If you have not done so already, go to the United States Patent Office Website and do some searching. Here you will find that absolutely no idea out there today is new, every possible concept you can think of has a patent on it, it's quite amazing. You might also purchase Fishing Lure Collectibles, a wonderful book by Murphy and Edmisten with hundreds of color photos in it. Both of these sources will make it clear to you that many of our "modern lures" are actually not so contemporary at all. Spinner baits, old, buzzbaits, ancient, spinners of every shape, fossils, rubber baits, antique, jerk baits, crank baits, small, large, sinking, floating, frogs, ducks, insects, props, bucktails, eyes, weedless, they have all been patented for 75 years or more. There have been some very smart guys down in the basement, out in the shop, avoiding their wives and making lures forever. Most of the ideas guys patent today are very subtle changes from concepts that have in many cases been around for 50 or more years. The photo-finish baits I like to make, guys were doing 50 years or more ago...they drew the pattern, layed it on, and finished over it.
I would never encourage someone to make a mold from a bait and then call it their own particularly if you are going to make money at it. But in reality, ALL of us, are making subtle changes to concepts that have been around before most of us were born. The new swimbaits are really cool but far from unique, large minnow shaped lures very similar to those made today that included jointed bodies and fins have been made for a hundred years or more. The fact that someone is now calling these lures "swim baits", making it from rubber (which is also been used for decades), and giving it his own paint-job, does not in my book make it a "unique concept". It is "his bait" yes, but it is not UNIQUE.
Each of us puts his own personality into their work but in the end we are all making things that have been made by others long before us...well except for that new lure of mine that screams "here fishy, fishy, fishy".
Posted 14 April 2004 - 10:56 PM
I was really trying to stay out of this one...... Lord was I trying. But I just can't stand it. On the old original site that many of the old guys here use to frequent, we had the same thing happen between some folks. No big deal...... just good discussion. My original answer to those guys is the same that I will put here.
The majority of guys on this site are good enough baitmakers to copy just about anything. If I want to copy a bait for myself or to sell I can do it. I will just buy an original, tear it apart and copy it. Most of us are garage bait makers. Plenty of tallent and hard workers at our craft. But we work alone, and are limited in time and tools to really ramp up and be competitive with industry or someone elses market in another part of the country. I'm a knock off artist. I make a Poes 400P and a Bagley Balsa bII look alike. I have made 3/4 size Poes 300s which are a knock off of the Zoom 300 knock off of a Poes 300. The difference is mine are made much better than the originals. No brag, just fact. The ammount of time that I take to make one of these baits is tremendous. I sell them and charge a steep price for them too. However, I probably only make about 300 baits a year. I am a one man shop and couldn't really take anyones business from them even if I wanted to. I had a guy even take some baits that he bought from me and took them to work and had them X-rayed to figure out how I did them. I know this because he sent me email asking me questions after he still couldn't figure it out.
The bait that is the topic here is a real nice bait. It took alot of skill and tallent to make it. Even if he copies it to sell it, I don't think that he will be kicking out 4 or 5 thousand of them any time soon. The fishermen will make their decission on what they want to use. The only folks that will call me a knock off artist are other baitmakers or their close friends. Personally, I really don't care what they call me........ because the baits that I knocked off and sold just made this months payment on my Skeeter and the customer got a superior bait. Otherwise, why would they be paying me 2 to 4 times the price of an original.
How good are the guys on this site? Heck, I'm thinking about posting a picture of a F-15 just to see if Coley can have one built by the end of the month.
Posted 14 April 2004 - 11:43 PM
Well put Skeeter. I think most of us are into "enhancement" or improvement of existing products, with a few notable exceptions.
Guarantee if you post a schematic for just about ANYTHING, someone on this board will either build it & post the pic to prove it, or figure out a way to build it better or faster. That's what happens with a bunch of guys who sit up until 2am separating the strands on jig skirts to make the colors lay right.
Somebody is probably pouring a rock hard water putty mold for that F15 right now.
Posted 16 April 2004 - 12:25 PM
Some very interesting read on the "knock-off" topic!! to tell you the truth without everyone's help here on this site and the "knock-off" ability, I would not have had a clue as to wher to beign. HOORAY to the "knock-off" Artist!
I think you guys are great and if I ever come up with an original you have my permission to knock it off as much as you like!
Posted 16 April 2004 - 01:21 PM
I agree with Skeeter, well said.
The bait posted at the beginning of this string is a nice looking bait. The time and effort that it takes to sit down and actually build a bait like that, or any bait, from scratch, should be applauded, not jumped on because it looks similar to what somebody else made, thats a copy of what somebody else made, thats a copy of what somebody else made, etc etc.
I appreciate the workmanship, the dedication, the time and the effort to build even one bait. Not to mention the tool expense. Not to mention the forethought to plan out how the final bait will appear and act.
I think the bait is well done, and I appreciate what he's done.
Dont be afraid to post future work!
Posted 16 April 2004 - 03:15 PM
thanks for all of the compliments...
and to the last one to post (forgot your username) i just put my perch swimbait up last night... check it out