Cmiller23

Odd Question.... How Many Engineers?

33 posts in this topic

Okay...

I will start off saying that I am currently a 22 year old mechanical engineering major. (3 semesters left 8O )

I will also say that next semester I have convinced one of my professors to allow me to do an undergraduate research study on.... crank baits (awesome huh?). Initially I thought I would like to use my own crank baits, but that is not really practical. My carving/sanding capabilities would never allow for an accurate test of multiple baits. Not to mention wood is not uniformly dense.

I could go on forever about this topic but really I was just curious how many members of this site are engineers?

So many of the posts I read are so technical, fluid mechanics/dynamics, aerodynamics, etc...

Just for fun, and thanks

Cory

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I think we got guys that are just passionate about their hobby. It is extremely addictive. There are certainly some innovative minds here when it comes to the ins and outs of a fishing lure. Some of it is a bit overwhelming to me and, to be honest, quite mind-bogglin' at times. But, I love it!!!

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Fisherman make the best baits...not engineers. Good luck with your study. I would talk more on this subject but I got to get to the lake and see if my boy YANNNN CEE Rate is correct on some crankbaits I just made. Wish I was an engineer...Then I wouldn't have to go to the lake and fish all these baits to see if they work! MAN THAT WOULD SUCK!

Edited by The_Rookie

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Cory - Good luck with your research project.

I am an engineer (now retired). Now I don't have time to do what I want to do all the things I want to do. Don't know how I got things done when I worked. Go figure. I've heard this phenomenon from other retirees but didn't believe it until now.

One thing I learned after working in the profession - there are engineers that really didn't engineer but managed engineering work or wen't good at it. There are people who have the apptitude and don't have engineering degrees. I really hold them in esteem. The "paper doesn't impress me". It what you can do and how you do with others. (Don't take this to say don't finish your education. That degree will open doors for you so FINISH!).

Do I use my engineering knowledge to build lure? Only a little but you might be surprised in what way. It keeps me from taking extra steps in the experiment ( making) a crank bait. There are way too many factors that will impact how a crankbait works to do what it supposed to do - catch fish first and catch fisherman second. (may visa versa). Notice that in your studies that there is alway a coefficent or factor in an equation. That factor is a fudge factor to cover "that what can't be explained. So I don't spend time 'calculating' or 'designing' a crankbait. Just enjoy building them, trying out, then modify, and learn. Kind of like the Wright brothers.

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Cory - Good luck with your research project.

I am an engineer (now retired). Now I don't have time to do what I want to do all the things I want to do. Don't know how I got things done when I worked. Go figure. I've heard this phenomenon from other retirees but didn't believe it until now.

One thing I learned after working in the profession - there are engineers that really didn't engineer but managed engineering work or wen't good at it. There are people who have the apptitude and don't have engineering degrees. I really hold them in esteem. The "paper doesn't impress me". It what you can do and how you do with others. (Don't take this to say don't finish your education. That degree will open doors for you so FINISH!).

Do I use my engineering knowledge to build lure? Only a little but you might be surprised in what way. It keeps me from taking extra steps in the experiment ( making) a crank bait. There are way too many factors that will impact how a crankbait works to do what it supposed to do - catch fish first and catch fisherman second. (may visa versa). Notice that in your studies that there is alway a coefficent or factor in an equation. That factor is a fudge factor to cover "that what can't be explained. So I don't spend time 'calculating' or 'designing' a crankbait. Just enjoy building them, trying out, then modify, and learn. Kind of like the Wright brothers.

Amen, Mr. Ed!

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EdL, Thank you for the response.

I am the same way when building my crankbaits, I build crankbaits because it is fun, it gives me something to do in my down time when im not studying or fishing.

In my research study I will most likely be using a 3D printer to make multiple relatively identical baits, size, weight, density.

A crankbait's wiggle from my limited knowledge is nothing more than a wavelength, and frequency.

If one was so inclined to come up with a mathematical formula in terms of weight, size, density, bill length, width, etc.... you could in essence design a bait to operate a certain frequency for a certain water temperature.

I understand water density changes as well.... but that is something that is not controllable or a "fudge factor"

With that type of formula though I think it would be very interesting to do a biological study with relatively identical baits that operate at a different frequency (wiggle rate? :nuhuh: ) And study what frequency at a certain water temperature draws more strikes from a bass for instance. I know this will be somewhat random but I bet with enough trials it will have some sort of bell curve shape.

In the end you could design a crankbait for water temperature ranges (which I understand is already out there in a round about way). But it was this undergraduate research study, or linear algebra, partial differential equations, or physical math.... what would you pick? lol

Sorry for the babbling.

Cory

Edited by Cmiller23

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Should be interesting to see what you come up with. I have discussed this a lot with fellow lure makers and a few engineers. It is always very interesting but rarely am satisfied with where it goes. As you know stay open minded collect the data and don't make it fit (all to common practice).

On a side note. Berkley engineered the "perfect" crankbait, lots of research in the test tanks, pro's letting them use there "honey" baits, measurements, etc.... to come up with the ever so popular..... :? what was that series. Might be a good place to start. I might have the article laying around still.

Edited by Travis

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Cory - take a look at topics dealing with vortex shedding and drag coefficients. These are used in flow measurment instrumentation, piping hydraulics, smoke stack design. A vortex flow meter has a bluff body across a fluid flow in a pipe that generate vortices (pressure pulses) downstream. These pulses are measured and related to flow rates. All to do with hydraulic physicss. Don't fret too much about it though because in reality manufacturers make an instrument and test it in a test flow tank to come up with performance and design calculations. What I'm suggesting is that maybe you can come up with a test tank (lake or pond or swimming pool) and test a design. Then you can relate the wake frequency(wobble) to the shape. Then take the lure to a lake and test it's fish catching. (Why not come up with a 'scientific' reason to hit the lake during class. Tell the Prof- need to collect testing data. please can I have a pass? Wish I had thought about it when I was in school. Now I have to be creative to leave the house and not do 'honey' do list item. Good luck with your project.

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If you are able, it would be interesting to hear/read updates as to your findings and studies. Tell you what though, if ever there was a group of individuals to ask questions about the dynamics of this "HOBBY" this is a great place to start! Good luck, bb

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Cory

I am a Sr. Mechanical Designer. I spent most of my career working on medical devices and hold 2 US Patents. (I currently have 3 more applications in). From what I gather, most home builders use an iterative prototyping process to arrive at a given design. Mechanical engineering when applied to design, even if in a new technollogy, is going to have it's roots in a predicate technology that has established standards. You will not find any ASTM standards for lures. Mostly because the data that has been developed at various manufactures is considered proprietary as the market is over saturated and highly competitive. To write a standard would be to give up your competitive design features.

Good luck

Sonny

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I'm a structural engineer. I make baits as a hobby/addiction and it gives a little side cash to continue the addiction

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Well heck I have been sitting here for a year trying to just make something wiggle the way I need it to, I've done so many designs but cant get it right and its a soft plastic type swimbait - do it all type thing. Now I find out I am sitting here with engineers, I guess I need to ask questions!!! Stop guessing and cussing. dang i feel stupid

Thanks

Cory Maybe you can start with mine

Edited by Toadslinger

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Clint - it has a lot to do with bait building. You gotta make sure your engine is strong enough to pull the load (line tie connection), watch out for the curves (the shape of the bait has to be just right), not go to fast(so you don't hurt yourself when carving), and be sure the cabboose is attached so the (rear) hook don't come out.

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Only things I can think of that help as being and engineer are knowing material properties (IE shear and tensile strength of different materials), understanding of fluid dynamics and boyancy, understanding of the R&D and problem solving process and most importantly that everything you do costs something no matter how small.

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I will also say that being an engineer has its draw backs as well... you tend to overthink the problem, try to be too perfect and you have a day job that takes a lot of your time away from the building of baits

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Some very interesting comments here. It is my opinion that there is a lot of engineering in lures that can be explored. Have a read up on 'vortex shedding', this is the basic engine that provides the movement. There are lots of web discussions on flat plate vortex generation which is applicable. Another subject to read is Strouhal numbers and apply then to the lip or bib, in relation o lure frequency.

If you want to talk engineering, email me through the site, as I don't get on here as often as I would like, but I am always up for some techy discussion.

Dave

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I knew i shouldnt have made a comment. Hell i cant even pronounce half the words you all have used. I think personally that it would be detrimental to have a mechanical degree for the simple fact that you will absolutely try to overthink every application on baitbuilding. I may stand corrected but I think most of us build baits for the shear enjoyment of taking raw materials, and collaberating them together to catch fish. More importantly it lets your imagination run wild. Thats where youll hit the wall. You will be to worried about technicalities and miss the common sense answer. Granted im seriously impressed with anyone that can finish a degree of that nature and applaud you for your effort. Just dont get too wrapped up in the numbers. My two cents.

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My own opinion is this. I find a lure I like, trace around it, cut out a piece of balsa, sand it down, add a lip and weght, coat it and test it in the bath tub. I know this hobby can get very technical, and people are doing and building some amzing lures here on TU. But to build a normal 2" crank its pretty easy. Swimbaits, are totally different, it seems you need to be a rocket scientist to build one of those. JMHO

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BTW, I am not saying anything bad about engineers. Some the "techy talk" I actually enjoy reading, it teaches me a lot about why some lures do not swim right. Rob

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That is the beauty of lure building, you can make it as simple or as technical as you want. Personally I like to employ my engineering skills in the process, but I would never look at another mans methods and say that he's wrong.

If you are not technically minded, applying tech would just suck the fun out of the process. To each his own I say.

Dave

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Cory,

Solving the problem is the challenge, and learning new skills along the way is the bonus.

Just try to avoid paralysis by analysis, and don't be afraid to make a mistake.

Personally, I learn more from my mistakes, since I have to figure out why it didn't work.

Good luck.

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Sorry for the slow response i actually just got done with finals... I'm glad to see that this post actually generated some interest.

Vodkaman -

I have read your post regarding the strouhal number and enjoyed doing so.

Vortex shedding is going to be a big part of this study as I will actually be doing tests in a wind tunnel rather than water.

First I had to make sure and match the Reynolds numbers between air and water.... It seems that if you have a reel that pulls in 28" of line per turn at 1 turn/second your reeling at approximately 0.7 m/s... But in air with matching reynolds number the lure would have to be moving (or air moving around the lure in this case) at approx 9-10 m/s.

I will most likely be using the strouhal number in this study at some point for the very reason of calculating the frequency.

Clint M - I actually do not use hardly any technical aspects when making my lures. I use the tried and true "eyeball method", now this does cause some inefficiencies in the process and I recognize that. But Im only building for fun and for my personal use. Also because I am a poor college student and cannot afford accurate machines. All I use is a coping saw, belt sander, dremel and drill.

But I am looking into building my own CNC router when I get a chance.... I met an electrical engineer that showed me the one he built. It would make my lure building alot more accurate and efficient to say the least.

I will say I did use some engineering for my lure turner :):)... It might be the most unique you have seen on this website.

It involves a variable speed drill and neodymium magnets.... (imagination)

Also, what I always tell my fiancé... My engineering degree is just my back up plan for my fishing career.

Edited by Cmiller23
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I arrived at the same numbers. Don't be thinking that I haven't thought about testing in air.

Other things to look at in your thesis, seeing as you are playing with Reynolds numbers, is minimum speed that the lure requires to work. This is related to the Reynolds number, being the speed that shedding starts.

Part of me would love to go back to college to do a project like this, but when I finished college I vowed never to play with numbers ever again :nuhuh:

Dave

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