Pvc Guys! ? For Yall.....
19 replies to this topic
Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:21 PM
I read in one of the many post about pvc that it was quite bouyant. Is this a incorrect statement? I got some AZEK trim board material to try out. Built a small flat sided bait and added about 1/8 oz of ballast and a small rattle in the back portion. Put a lip in it to test it in the pool before doing any finishing stuff. The bait sits nose down and seems to have a super slow rise(not necessarily bad). I havent put any hardware on it yet and sure if I do it will not rise at all but probably sink. Did I buy the wrong board or is my scale off??? Thanks for amy help.
Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:38 PM
I use the PVC from Lowe's but I don't know if it's the AZEK you're talking about. The baits I build are large, and weigh anywhere from 7/8ths to 1 ounce without hooks. My ballast is about 3/8ths of an ounce and they float ever so slightly nose down and when cranked down or just pulled down below the surface, they slide backwards and almost Plaster of Paris out of the water. Now how big are the baits you're building, just to get an idea of bait weight to ballast ratio. Maybe the 1/8 ounce and the rattles combined make the slow rise, which isn't bad either. That could be something you may want to focus on, fish will react to something that subtle.
Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:20 PM
Bassguy, thanks for the response. The bait I built was 2 5/8" long and about 3/8" wide. I believe the ballast and rattle combined is just under a 1/4 oz. Also does cold water have an effect on the rise. Like I stated I test them in my pool. The water temp is probably not much higher than 40 degrees at this time.
Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:27 PM
I have eperimented with PVC. I started with Azek from HD. It was not as bouyant as the PVC that Lowes sells. My lures are about 2" long and I add .25 grams of lead for the ballast. My first lures I made with the HD Azek. Looked great in the tub, but sank as soon as I put hooks and paint on them. If I was you I would but the hooks on the lure, and then put 3 or 4 paper clips on and see if they still float. That should let you know if they will still work.
Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:31 PM
The cold water will cause baits to act lighter... so if it barely rises now... it won't when the water reaches a higher temp.
As for AZEK.... I've been building my first run of topwater baits with that stuff this week.... while it is bouyant... it's not as bouyant as I thought it would be and will likely have to carve a bit of material out of the centers to get them on top of the water like I want. You may want to hollow out the insides a bit to get them to float better. I noticed on the 3 baits I cut they were heavier than I thought they would be and probably need less added weight than I thought. One thing to remember... your paint and topcaot will effect your lure as well....
Posted 16 February 2012 - 06:58 PM
I've used both the AZEK decking, and their more buoyant trimboard. The decking has about the same buoyancy as Poplar, and the trimboard is even more buoyant.
But you have to remember the material is only buoyant if it weighs less than the water it displaces.
So cranks that I've made with thinner tail sections don't back up like the ones I made with thicker tail sections. I have a couple that float, but suspend once I've cranked them down. The ones I made with the same profile from the side, but with almost the same width front to back, float and backup great.
I've made small topwaters, 4" and the shape of a fat pencil, and they work fine, but I am careful not to overload them with heavy hardware.
Balsa is the most buoyant material I've found, short of hollow plastic, but the trimboard is almost as buoyant, as long as you have enough material to float your hardware. Even balsa won't float if you overload it.
Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:25 PM
I have been wanting to try PVC for the longest time, but every HD or Loews I check out only carries decking with the fake wood grain. I can't for the life of me find anything that is smooth on both sides, Does anyone else use this? Am I just looking at the wrong stuff in the wrong department?
Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:30 PM
Try the link below. When I checked they had much better prices than any of the big box hardware stores. They also have the different types and sizes available. (deck board, trim board, etc.) The trim board was available in a smooth finish on both sides.
Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:29 AM
The trim material at Lowe's comes in 10' lengths and has a profile to it like a brick molding. I remove the slick sides and the profile with a table saw to have a retangular piece once I'm finished that's aprox 1" thick and almost 2" wide. I cut it up into 1 foot pieces and go from there.
Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:04 AM
If you can get the trimboard from AZEK, it comes in 1" net X 3 1/2", and in longer lengths, so there's more usable material.
Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:10 PM
I purchased the Azek trimboard from the site Rayburn posted.... shipped fast and they are great to deal with... shipping wasn't that expensive either. You can buy as much as you need (1 foot increments).... I wound up buying a 4 foot section of 3/4" x 3 1/2" and 3 feet of 1 1/4" x 7 1/2"... between those two sizes I can cut exactley what I need for the part I need to machine. Plus with the trimboard if you get the "plain" it's perfectly smooth on both sides.... this is perfect for the seamlines / bonding two halfs together.
I machined a few topwaters recently (LC Gunfish style)... if I get a chance to test them this weekend I'll post a few pics up. I like workign with this stuff so far.... all the benefits of a soft wood like material but the benefits of plastic.... win-win in my book.
Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:24 PM
I realized I had a few shots of my topwater in progress... testing to follow... I've made 4 with different amount of weight in each of the chambers to see which gives the action I'm looking to achieve. At this point I used really small screw eyes to hang the hooks, but may insert/epoxy a small 1/8" dia solid dowel material (acetal) in the hook hanger area then put the screw eye into that as testing one that way resulted in a very strong bond between the eye and body.
Edited by SlowFISH, 17 February 2012 - 12:24 PM.
Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:53 PM
Wow, that looks great! You did an amazing job. How long did it take you to make it to that point?
Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:55 PM
Nice work, I'm going to use that method to make internal rattles with bbs.
Just picked up some pvc molding today, note when you go into HD ask for it many of them will not know about it. Talk to the windows and doors group they'll know what you're looking for, the lumber section directs you to the fence boards with grain. (excited to use this, going to save me so much time). I must have walked by this stuff in the molding section 100's of times without ever knowing it wasn't part of their mdf molding section.
Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:51 PM
I probably have a good 8-10 hours into the CAD.... after that probably another 2-3 in the machining programing to get parts cutting correct... now I can make mods, update the machining paths pretty quickly. I run the machine slow so it takes about 2 hours to cut one (both halves), but basically none of my time besides flipping the part once and changing to a smaller cutter. So I can come home form work, start one up, eat dinner and play with the kids and have it done, lightly sanded and bonded in one night with minimal effort on my part. If I had a more powerful computer my CAD time would have been less but I'm using an older workstation we were tossing from work, so I can't complain too much!!
As for how it works.... I tested 4 today with different weights. All but one worked (the lightest one did nothing). Two had slightly more than I wanted worked ok.... they bait with just slightly less than the LC lure I have worked best.... I'm making some minor adjustments to get the weights further back and adding a hair bit more meat on the belly to help this thing turn a bit... shoudl be done tonight and hopefully I'll test i and be done tommorrow. Then the finishing will begin!!!
Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:28 AM
I've found with smaller topwater baits that having them hang down almost vertical is the best way to achieve a good walker. They need the weight in the rear to give the tail section enough momentum to keep it moving when the head stops. That initiates the walk-the-dog action, and seems to be critical to getting a small bait to walk.
As someone to whom computers are still aliens from another world, my hat is off to you! You have bent the monster to your will!!!!!!!
Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:42 PM
Just awesome work! I've used the Azek trimboard and it weighs 41lbs/cu.ft. The weights are on their website and they are consistently accurate. SlowFISH is on the edge with the mirror image machining! Super work...I get reprimanded when I do this at work, so I mold mine from resin now. I use drill templates to make the mirror image voids in my patterns.
Thanx again Mark P.! The pvc makes great mold patterns!
Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:11 AM
Everyone here who uses PVC owes a big thank you to JRHopkins, who first discovered it as a building material, and turned all of us here at TU on to it.