davewood

Thru Wire Constuction

39 posts in this topic

Is ther an advantage to thru wire contruction? I'm using screw in hangers now. What kind of wire do you use?

Thanks

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I do on certain balsa baits that I make. On some of the others I use screw hangers I make from 19guage stainless steel wire. Do a search, there is a ton of info and opinions/facts on the thru wire construction.

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Thats a question with no direct answer.

what style lure.

which wood type. as stated theres tons of valuable input on the site

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The advantage to through wire is (to me) the line tie, and the hook hangers are connected together as in one piece of wire. A failure of a hook hanger and a line tie due to extreme stress is less likely to happen with a through wire bait. I don't build these types of baits because of the confidence I have in my handmade screw ties and line ties and I don't have the patients to cut my baits in half to install the wire. Again, there is quite a bit of info on this subject if you do a search.

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Thru wire construction is easier the bigger the bait(try thru wiring a mini fat rap size crank). It is a more robust construction, especially the less dense/softer the wood is. I have only thru-wired about 4 baits bc super glued in twisted wire has yet to cause a single problem for me(i dont fish for toothy critters, but have caught saugeye up to 6.5 lbs on my balsa minnows, no prob). I make mostly small baits. Lastly, the tools i use (minimalist and cheap: sand paper, hand saw, x tools pliers to make twisted wire, two types of wire cutters, Wiha micro screwdriver, a dart tip, an exacto, scissors, hand torch, dremel, files)make it easier to to use twisted wired that is simply glued in. For example, the only saw i own is a $5 stanley hand saw that has about a 4" blade. Having said that, i do really like thru wire designs, but i think the whole "they're stronger" argument is over rated. I do other things to add strength to my non thru wired designs though, like extra epoxy layers. Like i said, i dont fish for toothy critters, and the biggest bass around here run about 5 lbs(or any one i ever have a remote chance of catching). I do really like the thru wire designs though, and would like to eventually get more into them.

Edited by pizza

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The thru wire has it's place in lure construction. When building a highly buoyant bait out of one of the softer grades of balsa I like to use a thru wire. Some of the lakes where my lures are fished have the potential of producing the fish of a lifetime and I would hate to know that chance was wasted because a lure I built didn't hold up. The thing about a thru wire constructed bait is that theoretically the whole body of the bait could be destroyed and you could still land the fish. Is a thru wire necessary 100% of the time? In my opinion it's not. The determining factor for me is the type of wood the bait is being built out of. If you have any doubts I suggest you do some testing. Take a piece of whatever wood you want to use and install your choice of hook hanger or line tie into it. Hang the blank from one of the hangers and add weight to the other hanger and let it hang there for a few hours. Keep adding weight and letting it hang until you have a failure. This will give you an idea as to whether or not you should use a thru wire or not.

Ben

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I dont believe that type of test to represent would happen in a real world fishing failure of a non thru-wired bait. I think if a bait fails, it would be by a crushing impact from a large toothy critter(followed by much less tension than that used in your test) Maybe someone could modify a supersized rat trap with a shark jaw and set up some type of standardized test lol.

Edited by pizza

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The test I described is not intended to represent what would happen in a real world fishing failure Pizza. It's intended to give insight on the strength of a given type of wood when using screw eyes or glued in hook hangers and line ties.

Ben

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Ok, just saying that If you are worried about catastrophic failure(losing a fish), a drop or impact test is much more realistic than hanging weights(static loading). As i understand, the biggest reason )why people thru wire is to prevent catastrophic failure(catastophic failure being defined as anything that would lead to one losing a fish due to lure failure).

Edited by pizza

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JMHO - Thru-wire is needed only on balsa baits (we're talking bass baits only). Thru-wiring will not stop a balsa bait from being destroyed. You can still slap a thru-wired balsa bait on the water to clear weeds off and have the head break off or the ballast shoot out the bottom of the bait due to instantaneous stress. Been there, done that! But thru-wiring gives a balsa bait some internal reinforcement that will make that less likely to happen if you insist on doing stupid things with balsa baits. The reinforcement is due as much to the glue used to rejoin the halves of the bait after the thru-wire frame is inserted in the bait. JMHO, thru-wiring isn't needed on bass baits made from anything other than balsa. I have bought, built, and used balsa baits that performed acceptably without thru-wiring. Others were junk in an hour. You have to consider the bait as a whole: How dense is the balsa? Is it thru-wired? How tough is the undercoating and topcoat? If screw eyes are used instead, what type are they and how long? And perhaps most importantly, how durable do you need/want the bait to be? If you are building baits solely for your own use, build them however you want. If you are building balsa baits for sale and want them to gain a reputation as durable, thru-wiring is a good step in making them durable products.

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Ok, just saying that If you are worried about catastrophic failure(losing a fish), a drop or impact test is much more realistic than hanging weights(static loading). As i understand, the biggest reason )why people thru wire is to prevent catastrophic failure(catastophic failure being defined as anything that would lead to one losing a fish due to lure failure).

Maybe you can enlighten me as I don't understand how a drop or impact test relates to a screw eye or glued in hook hanger being pulled out. I can understand them being pulled out if the bait were crushed, but unless your fishing for something much bigger than a largemouth bass I don't really see this happening.

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imho, the forces a lure would see during a battle with a big fish are much less than those one would find if they did the test until failure (maybe I'm wrong, I've never done the tests nor have I researched into the forces a lure may encounter during battle). They are for much shorter time. An impact force to similate the force of someone setting the hook, trying to free up a snagged lure, or a fishing hitting a lure with fast velocity (as well as crushing it with its jaw). The test you mention will be good to compare different build techniques, materials, etc for sure to make lures stronger for sure.

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Force applied to a lure by setting the hook is mostly absorbed by the rod once it loads, then the lateral force of the pull once the line is taught through the line eye to the hook eye is where the bait is impacted. The fish hitting the bait at an obtuse angle is also mostly absorbed by the line and then the rod once it loads as well. The through wire application has it's place in lure construction, no argument here, I prefer not to. :?:twocents:

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Biggest fish I ever hooked was a tarpon.

Girlfriend of mine at the time took me to see her father. He was a retired big wig from black and decker living in Bradeton Fl. He lived in a gated community on an island right on intercostal water way. We would wave at the sailboats as they floated by. Like any good TN country boy would do; I took my bass gear with me. Never know when the opportunity to wet a hook will arrive. Be prepared is my moto. Anyway, with water everywhere I was chomping at the bit to wet a line. First day by the pool, I kept noticing something big breaking right at the edge of the mango trees growing along the edge of the shoreline line. Off I went to get my gear. I figured nothing stood a chance againt me and my allstar med/ heavy graphite rod with a brand new shimano Curado reel loaded with 50 pound spider wire. I tied on my all time favorite bait pearl white zoom super fluke. Soon the fish was breaking again . I casted just like my dad taught me and bullseyed the break ring. just a couple of twitches and the line was off and moving away fast. I reeled down set it deep. Thats when all hell broke loose. I have never seen a fish so big jump so high and make so much commotion in all my life. I did not know whether to stand my ground or run. After the initial shock, I decided to hold on for the ride. The fish would break then run at will about all I could was hold and pray nothing failed. The only thing saving me was the drag. After several minutes of this, to my surprise the fish finally tired and I was able to guide him to shore. I still had no idea what this animal was but he had gained enough respect I wasn't putting my hands in his mouth. The fish was bigger around than my thigh and longer than I was tall. I decided to let the him swim back out in the bay while my girlfriend ran for the camera. During this brief moment the fish mustered up enough strength for one more trick . He leaped from the water all nearly six feet of him cupped his body then with all his might snapped his head back and this was the last saw of him as he broke my 50lb spider wire. The next day in same spot I hooked another one( maybe the same one for all I know) on a rapala minnow. My favorite one at that . He showed me same trick . Never did get the photo...... or the fish.............

Edited by littleriver
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I'm building a series of small cranks for the local fish, as the mouth is very small compared to your bass. The bodies being only 1.5" long, there is no room for screw eyes, so I have had to get creative. But I didn't have to split the bait. I did it by fitting a barrel twisted eye 1.25" into the body. I intersected this with the belly eye hole and made an eye with a loop. The barrel twisted tow eye screws through this loop and so all the eyes are linked together and very solid.

I have caught several fish with the first unpainted proto, including a 5Lb toothy bawal and the bait handled itself flawlessly. Incidentally, my first fish on my own lures, can you believe it!

There are several other ways of through wiring without having to split the bait. One of my favorites is to cut a slot along the spine and drop a through wire harness in and fill with polyester filler. This method leaves enough room to fit ballast from the belly.

Normally I would not through wire on lures 3" or larger, as I do not use balsa.

Dave

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I like through wire for Saltwater lures, the fish are bigger and rougher. Muskies and pike slam a bait hard, but are not huge fighters like a smallmouth for their size. Maybe also through wire for red cedar or Balsa, but I don't use Balsa. I am making 4" bottle Poppers for Stripers and will use them in fresh for big bass, figuring on the 18" to 24" type Stripers hitting them and am only going to epoxy and screw eye them with .071 screw eyes in poplar wood.

Big saltwater fish or soft wood - through wire

Freshwater - screw eye and epoxy maybe

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Normally I use twisted eyes BUT I'm off to the N.T soon (Northern Territory) and even though I know from static tests on twisted eyes, they will hold 20-30Kg (50-70lb) , I would not even concider trying to catch a large 'Mangrove Jack' or ' Barramundi' without a FULL harness - they can destroy a lure with their jaw compression on the tail and belley hangers---in any timber -

For these fish it's not worth the short cut --------------------------------And there are bigger bullies out there.

Pete

Edited by hazmail

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Biggest problem I find with screw eyes is that if using them at the line tie one a crank bait the tuning of it can cause it to open up and separate from the bait. Through wire eliminates this problem, as does making your own screw eyes with wire.

As far a strength goes I took a .72 screw eye and lifted weight with it, held find at 50-80 but opens up at 90-95. I used actual weights attached to a 20 lbs of chain for progressive resistance. This was in spruce without epoxy/glue. As for making your own eyes I did the same test in spruce with a cheap 5 min epoxy and a half-assed screw eye that had 3 or 4 barrel twists (total shaft .75 inch in length), at 110 lbs 1 twist came out slowly. Next day I tested it again and it held 130 lbs firmly with maybe just a hint of movement that it may come out if it hung for 5 minutes.... So if you're making baits not in balsa, and not fishing something crazy through wire may not be necessary.

Edited by Sbaits

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"I have caught several fish with the first unpainted proto, including a 5Lb toothy bawal and the bait handled itself flawlessly. Incidentally, my first fish on my own lures, can you believe it!"

Dave the barrel twist through loop sounds like a solid solution. I looked up the bawal. Flat sided fish can really put up a fight. A five pounder would have been great fun. Congratulations! I would say your endanger of liking to fish if this keeps up. Are you using a white base coat proto or a nudie? Might try some simple patterns as well. Like red and white; a classic fishing color pattern.

Vic

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Normally I use twisted eyes BUT I'm off to the N.T soon (Northern Territory) and even though I know from static tests on twisted eyes, they will hold 20-30Kg (50-70lb) , I would not even concider trying to catch a large 'Mangrove Jack' or ' Barramundi' without a FULL harness - they can destroy a lure with their jaw compression on the tail and belley hangers---in any timber -

For these fish it's not worth the short cut --------------------------------And there are bigger bullies out there.

Pete

G'day Pete

agree. I am off to PNG in May and will be making some fizzers with straight through wire for those bigger bullies!

One of the blokes at work made me up a jig that holds the drill fixed in position and allows for a centre hole to be drilled, no need to split baits and glue. Only issues I have had is with longer baits 150mm plus where grain of some woods diverts 3mm drill offline

Good luck in the Top End

Guy

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The test described above by RayburnGuy is a valid engineering test. (Usually referred to as a pull test) It isnt exactly the way it would happen in nature but it gives the engineer a number to work with when designing. Most of the tackle you buy is tested and rated using a similar method. Most of the time it is done with fixtures and a lpull scale but the method described above achieves the same thing. Leaving the weight on for a while also is good because that checks for fatigue over time.

Sonny

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Thank you Sonny. That was the point I was trying to make, but somehow it got confused with an entirely different set of principles.

Ben

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G'day Pete

agree. I am off to PNG in May and will be making some fizzers with straight through wire for those bigger bullies!

One of the blokes at work made me up a jig that holds the drill fixed in position and allows for a centre hole to be drilled, no need to split baits and glue. Only issues I have had is with longer baits 150mm plus where grain of some woods diverts 3mm drill offline

Good luck in the Top End

Guy

Guy - I envy you being able to get up there, a place I always wanted to go--strangely enough my ex is bobbing around on Port Morsby harbour, hopefully on a prison ship 8O --If you see her in the water, leave her there :lolhuh: .

Pete

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