Proof Is In The Puddin
53 replies to this topic
Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:49 PM
Hey Mark, I read on another thread where you were talking about the Createx paints and how you use a hair dryer to heat cure the paint so that it is waterproof....a couple of questions....what duration of time does it take to effectively cure the paint? and if the final product is being sealed with some sort of clearcoat, does it really matter if the paint is "waterproofed" or not? I am new to all of this so just trying to get a feel for what I am in for as I progress in this process. Thank you in advance for your time and willingness to share information...
Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:52 AM
I'm not sure exactly what temps need to be reached to change the molecular structure.
If you go to the Createx website, there is probably more exact info on what takes place and at what temp.
Remember Createx was designed, first and foremost, for painting T shirts, so heat setting it with an iron makes the T shirts washable.
My experience with Createx, and all the water based air brush paints I use, is that hitting them with a hair dryer is important for making sure all the water is gone before you shoot the next coat. Otherwise, water can get trapped by the next coat, and can cause problems when you top coat.
T shirt paint is also flexible, so I try and get it as dry as possible to make it as rigid as possible. Thin, heat set coats feel much more rigid to me than coats that aren't heat set. At least, they feel harder to my fingernail.
I usually hit the bait in sections, ten seconds each, with my hair dryer on low, for each coat, and then the whole bait again with the dryer on high at the end. I am careful with PVC baits not to overheat them, because the PVC will release little bubbles, probably from the plastic itself. PVC does melt, or, at least, get sticky on the surface, at a relatively low temperature.
If it does, I use the handle of my exacto knife to roll them back down, and they never cause problems.
I am not sure I'm ever actually achieving the total heat set/molecular conversion temperature. If I screw up, I'm always able to remove the paint with water and a rag, so I never have gotten it truly waterproof.
But I get it really dry, and the top coat takes care of the rest.
I am a little more cavalier with my painting because I only paint plastic and PVC baits, neither of which require any sealing to be totally waterproof.
I rely on my urethane top coat to protect the paint scheme, not to keep water out of the bait itself.
So far, so good. I've fished some of my cranks and swimbaits for years without any problems. Knock on wood!
Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:36 PM
So you don't carve wood....you carve PVC...did you start out carving wood?.....before I discovered these forums, I thought PVC was pipe. Never seen PVC thick enough to be able to carve....? where would one find some of this material to try out? Do you use it because you don't have to worry about your lures getting water-logged, or is it easier to carve than wood? Or is it something that you "graduate" to after paying your dues with wood? I am intrigued.
Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:31 AM
I am a hobby builder, and only make lures for myself and my buddies, so keep that in mind when you read this.
I started out carving wood. Initially, it was to replace a buddy's Pupfish that I'd broken. Then it was to make a jointed swimbait to replace the two triple trouts he'd lost on back to back weekends.
After I'd beaten my head against the wall trying to come up with a sealing system that would work with my jointed swimbaits, JR Hopkins took pity on me and introduced me to AZEK decking and trim board.
It is a composite of some kind of fiber, probably wood, and PVC. It's totally waterproof, strong, hard, and buoyant.
The trim board is the most buoyant, and I use it for cranks.
I use the decking for swimbaits and topwaters.
It machines and carves like wood, but you need to use sharp tools. When it gets hot, it melts and gets sticky on the surface, like from too much pressure with a belt sander.
The dust is nasty, so be sure to use a dust mask whenever you machine it or even hand sand. I do my touchup hand sanding on my driveway, with a fan behind me blowing past, or I wear a dust mask for that, too. And I blow the dust off myself with my compressor when I'm done. It stick to my hands, the baits, and my clothes.
But none of those things outweighs it's beauty as a lure making material.
I can make a bait, add the hardware, and test swim it without any sealing.
And I only prime it to smooth out the surface, if I think it needs it. Most of the time, I just sand down to 220, and start my painting directly onto the PVC.
So I can make, paint, and top coat a lure in one day, and fish it the next.
Amazing how much time it's cut off my lure building process.
Once I'd found AZEK, I actually began selling my swimbaits, because I knew there would be no paint and top coat failure issues.
That's when I learned that building for sale takes all the fun out of building lures. I don't do it anymore.
Google AZEK, and you'll find there website, which has a dealer locator.
Hope this helps.
Edited by mark poulson, 27 March 2012 - 07:35 AM.
Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:36 PM
Mark I agree with you. Every time i find myself building a specific lure for someone, my freedom to build what i want is suddenly gone. Work is exactly it.
Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:49 PM
Thank you very much Mark.....you might just have saved me a lot of frustration and headaches....I have been wondering about how to seal jointed baits too...and was wondering if it was possible....thank you so much for your willingness to share...I only do it as a hobby....I have no desire to disappoint other people.....I used to paint and draw and found that the pictures in my mind were never the same as the ones in my customers....so I gave that up long ago....now I only do it for personal enjoyment and relaxation....when I aint fishin that is.....so now I got this new creative flow going and started wondering if I was getting in over my head......I don't think my wife is gonna be very happy ......lol....AZEK...here I come.
Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:58 AM
Glad to share. Everything I know about building lures I learned here at TU, from other members who shared with me, so, at least for me, it's part of the deal to share with others in return.
Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:21 PM
So, I just got back from a visit to both Lowe's and Home Depot.....Lowes had something somewhat similar I guess, but was not called Azek....came in a couple of shades of brown, but they were like 18 ft long and cost like $35 bucks a piece....I guess when you consider that with 18 ft of this stuff, I could probably make several dozen lures with it....but not knowing anything about the stuff, I don't know that I want that much of it to start out with....they had two thicknesses....1" and 1 1/4 "....1" seems a little thin to me, so I would probably lean toward the thicker of the two, if they had something smaller than 18 ft.....Home Depot had some that were labelled as the desired material and they were 10' in length, white, and much more reasonably priced, but they only had 1" thickness...I took a look online at some photos of the stuff and it appeared to me that the material is limited as to the sizes you can get...but I will keep looking....now if we are talking non-jointed lures, like walk the dog type baits, are they as difficult to seal?..I have one that I am anxious to try out....it is about 7 1/2" long and is somewhat a "KO" of the Lunker Punker...I really like the design of that lure, but not willing to fork out that kind of cash...so I just carved one out of basswood...and from what a couple of friends tell me, it looks pretty sharp....if I could figure out how to upload a pic, I would, but am not having much luck with that....I am somewhat technically challenged with these kinda things at times....so if you know of anyplace that has more of a variety of sizes of this stuff, it would be greatly appreciated....in the meantime, I will keep looking...thanks again.
Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:28 PM
Have you tried doing a search online for Azek? If you go to the manufacturers website they usually have a search option to find dealers close to you.
Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:35 AM
1" thick works fine for me. If you need thicker, you can glue up a blank from two pieces. PVC glue should work fine for that. I use epoxy and it works perfectly. Just be sure to remove the factory finish from the faces you're gluing first, so you have a porous surface.
One neat deal with gluing up two pieces is you have a very prominent center line to work with. That really helps me to get the lure more symeterical as I'm shaping it.
One piece wooden lures aren't as difficult to seal. If I were making one, I'd probably seal it with D2T, thinned with denatured alcohol and coated several times. That should penetrate and seal.
Or, if you have the time, the linseed oil mixture others have recommended should work, too.
If you seat your hook hangers and line tie in either crazy glue or epoxy, they won't turn and give water an entry point. I use sst screw eyes, run them in and back out again to cut threads in the blank, coat the eye threads and shank with brush-on crazy glue, and run them back in. Whatever glue doesn't stay on the threads when it gets run back in will make a little hump around the hole that the eye can sit in, and that should lock it in place.
Hardware movement is the biggest culprit in water intrusion.
Next is on the water encounters with rocks. I carry a bottle of clear nail polish in my boat, for on the water repairs if and when that happens. Just be sure to dry the lure well before you put on the polish, and let the polish dry well before you start throwing it again.
Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:23 PM
So I found a website that offers it in any 1 foot increments that you want to buy.....1.25 inches thick, 3.5 inches wide....I bought a foot to start out with.....if I think it is something that I might like to further pursue, then I know where to get it....now I am like the proverbial kid on Christmas Eve.....can't wait to get it and try it out....I have attempted to upload some photos of my wood carvings on here but am having no luck....must be doing something wrong along the line....anybody care to share how I can reduce my frustration concerning this problem? thank you in advance.
Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:35 PM
To upload pics just click on the "More Reply Options" button in the lower right hand corner of the "Reply" box. When that opens click on the "Browse" button under where it says "Attach Files". That will open up the files on your computer. Choose the appropriate file and then click on "Attach This File".
If that doesn't work then you have problems that I'm not sure how to fix.
Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:26 AM
Ok, it looks like that worked, although I am not sure that I am supposed to be posting these pics here...if not, please advise accordingly, and I will be more careful in the future....I think my lunker punker K.O. is a bit thicker than the original, so I am wondering how that will affect the walk-the-dog action that it is supposed to have...I sealed it last night, so just waiting for it to completely dry so I can take it out and test it before I apply it's characteristics....
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can't wait to get my azek block in the mail....I am really wanting to make the jointed plug that is pictured without having to worry about whether it is waterproof or not....It will be interesting to see how bouyant that stuff is as compared to wood.....
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Thanks again for all the assistance...
Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:19 PM
Thank you sir.....I am certainly hoping that Azek material carves as nicely as basswood....if it does, I will definitely be hooked.....pun intended....and if it doesn't, then I guess I will just have to stick to non-segmented baits....or just use em til their useless and carve another one...
Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:26 PM
I don't think you'll get as smooth a surface with the PVC as you got with the wood. It is made from fine grain particles, not grown like wood. You will probably have to wet sand it with 400 grit wet and dry paper after priming with Rustoleum rattle can primer, several coats, to get it smooth.
Myself, I don't bother. I sand down to 220, and then paint directly over the PVC.
My Createx white base coat, pearls, and other colors in multiple coats fill it in almost completely, and my dipped top coat, three dips, finishes the job.
Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:18 PM
still waiting for my block...not sure what is taking so long....anyway, being new to this whole realm, I didn't think about the fact that the paint could fill in the minute crevices that may be left on the PVC....I am anxious to get going with this endeavor....almost finished with my "spray booth" (more for my wifes' peace of mind than anything)....when that is done, I can take the next step and get my "gun" kit and starting experimenting....my wife tells me I am like a kid at Christmas time when it comes to anything that relates to bass fishin.....lol
Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:13 PM
Actually, I just got it in the mail a couple of days ago...have no idea what took so long for me to get it, but it doesn't really matter now that I do have it......I cut off a hunk and took the knife to it just to see how it "whittles", and so far, so good....I am in the middle of another project right now (building a paint booth), so as soon as I finish with that, I will really get down to seeing how this stuff performs....so far as I can tell right now, I am liking it....but as with anything, you really don't know what you,re in for until you spend a little time with it...will keep you updated as I progress...thanks.