aaron4mvp

Heat Setting Between Coats?

32 posts in this topic

Ok, I have read a lot about heat setting Createx paints, and it seems everyone has a different opinion about how to go about this.

The createx website says to heat set after the final coat, but a lot of peole on the forum say they heat set after each coat.

Why the difference in opinion? And which one is best?

And should you heat set dry paint or wet paint?

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I heat set after every change of color or coat. I want to be sure the paint is dry prior to the next color change or coat of the same color. I use a hair dryer to do the heat set, not too hot, just enough to remove the moisture.

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Createx is designed to be a t-shirt paint and spraying multiple wet coats onto an absorbent material like a t-shirt is a little different than spraying paint onto a surface like plastic or sealed wood. These surfaces don't absorb the paint and when spraying multiple colors quite a bit a wet paint can build up which not only makes heat setting more difficult it can also result in drips and runs due to the amount of wet paint building up on the lure. The alternative is to heat set the paint as you go. Heat setting individual layers of paint is quicker, your not worrying about different colors blending together on the lure to create a separate color you don't want and you don't have to worry about paint running and dripping. Just my :twocents:

Ben

Edited by RayburnGuy

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Ok, thank you.

One more question. Do you allow the paint to air dry and then heat set? Or just heat dry on low and then high heat set?

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Not sure how everyone else does it, but I do it all in one step. As soon as I put a layer of paint on the bait, even if I'm spraying multiple coats of the same color, I heat set the paint. Heat setting will naturally dry the paint.

Ben

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It's worth discussing heat drying versus heat setting to end the confusion/paranoia among guys who are just starting to paint baits with acrylic latex paints. I dry paint with a hair dryer after every color shot so the airbrush will not push wet paint around during the next color shot, but that's the only reason. If that's not a concern for you, I think you can wait until you finish painting the bait to dry it with a hair dryer, or just let it sit to thoroughly air dry. Just be sure it's really, truly dry before you put on the topcoat.

Here's where the confusion comes in. Createx says 325 degrees for 15-20 seconds to heat set their paint. I think shooting a hair dryer on a crankbait is never going to melt the acrylic paint and "heat set" it, like T-shirt artists do. Dry it, yes. If you actually heat up the paint with a heat gun (not a hair dryer) until it blisters your fingers, you might get it hot enough to set (melt) the paint. But in the meantime, your hollow plastic crankbait will explode and the paint on your wood crankbait will bubble as air inside the wood is forced out by the internal pressure. How would you test whether acrylic paint on a crankbait was actually "heat set"? Why not the same way as a T-shirt? Soak it in detergent, give it a scrub and see if it stays on the bait. I'm betting it won't. And I'm saying we just dry the paint, not heat set it. And that's OK.

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Hey Guys,

Heat setting, heat drying,... these are techniques I felt I needed to utilize cuz I just couldn't wait! But later I discovered how much better it was to build a nice ventilated, heated , drying box and let the paint cure a bit slower (even between coats of the same color.) The finish was harder, there was less milking, running blurring, and outgassing, and the paint seemed to last longer and be more resilient. there ya go ,.. 2 cents

bodfish

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Personally, I agree with BobP. I don't think we can get the T shirt paint hot enough to truly heat set it, and change it's molecular structure, without ruining either the bait or the paint job, because we don't, as Ben pointed out, paint T shirts. We paint hard, porous surfaces.

If you put a plastic bait in a 325 degree oven for 20 minutes, I'm pretty sure it will burst from the expansion of the air inside it. I have not tried that particular experment.

Even with the PVC I use, if I heat it longer than a few seconds with the hair dryer on high, I get bubbling, either from trapped air, or from trapped solvent in the actual PVC material.

I use a hair dryer, first on low, and then on high, to drive out as much moisture as I can before I top coat, to avoid trapping moisture under the top coat.

Trapped moisture insures top coat failure.

I dip with a water borne urethane top coat, and heat set it, too, and the whole paint scheme is water proof when I'm done. I've had hook rash and rock "bites", but the paint scheme holds up.

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I use the hairdryer between coats of Createx then when finished place them in an oven I made from an old small broken refrigerator, removed the compressor & wiring & installed a cheap light fixture & switch using a 100 watt bulb for heat source. 20 minutes or so in there does a nice job for me. Turn it on when I start paint'n & it will be hot when the painting is done.

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heat gun works fine. set between colors and you cant go wrong. just dont let it blow in one spot very long. you can see the paint setting while you do it. like was said before your not going to be able to treat it like it was on a t-shirt.

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If you'll go to the Createx website and look at their application guide you'll see that heating to 325 degrees for 15 to 20 seconds is recommended when using a shirt press. When using a heat gun they give the following instructions, " Heat Gun: apply heat at a low to mid-temperature setting no more than 300°F. Keep air moving to avoid blistering. Apply heat until paint is warm to the touch." Heating until the paint is warm to the touch is not going to bubble the paint or melt plastic lures.

The application guide does say that the paint cures best when paint is thoroughly dried prior to application of heat. Only thing about doing it this way is that I don't think there are many of us who are willing to wait until each coat of paint is thoroughly dried, without application of heat, before applying the next coat of paint. If we did it this way it would take hours, if not days, to paint a bait.

To my way of thinking this is really a lot of nitpicking anyway. As long as the paint is thoroughly dried, whether it's truly heat set or not, it's going to be protected by a hard outer shell of whatever top coat you choose to apply over it. The same thing can't be said about a paint job on a t-shirt. If epoxy, DN, auto clear, or any of a number of top coats was sprayed on a t-shirt to protect the paint job you would no longer want to wear it.

To read the application guide click on the link below.

Ben

http://www.createxcolors.com/technical/PDFs/Createx_ApplicationGuide.pdf

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Ben, I basically feel the same way. A good topcoat is what makes a durable finish. I've had the finish delaminate on only 2 crankbaits out of hundreds and both were top coated with epoxy. I think it happened because the finish was damaged and the wood swelled, or because I didn't thoroughly dry the paint before top coating. It doesn't take much water absorption to ruin a crankbait. It's like pressure applied to an arch - it can take lots more load applied from the outside than from inside. So it's easy to break even the most durable finish if the wood swells.

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ok I'm gonna ask a really stupid question.First I've been painting baits for a few years and when I learned I didn't know about this site and just learned on my own. I never learned that I had to heat set at all. So over the years, I've never heat set any baits. On rare occasions I spray my paint pretty heavy and it drips and runs, but thats not often. I just felt that was my fault because I added a little too much thinner (water) in my paint and/or sprayed it too heavy. Most of the time I spray thin coats that, at least I thought, were dry by the time I clean my cup and switch colors.

So, my question is, and I apologize because it might be obvious therefore a dumb question, but why do we heat set them either during or after? So far I've never had an issue with any of my baits...

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I use a hair dryer for my Createx-type paints because, when I came to TU and first started using them, everyone recommended doing it.

I find the coats dry faster, so there's less chance of one coat "melting" the one under it, and I can apply multiple coats and colors more quickly.

I can also paint and top coat the same day with a hair dryer, so it speeds my building process.

I don't build every day, or every week, so, when I get a wild hair, I like that I can shape, paint, and top coat a bait in one day, let it cure for another day, and then fish it.

I've seen your work.

You actually know how to paint, and have talent, so your experience is a little different than mine.

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I use a hair dryer and dry between coats of paint. Its just part of my process in building. I feel like it "sets" the paint to some degree.

I watch the paint as I dry it and when it loses its shiney appearance then I move on to the next color. :twocents:

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ok I'm gonna ask a really stupid question.First I've been painting baits for a few years and when I learned I didn't know about this site and just learned on my own. I never learned that I had to heat set at all. So over the years, I've never heat set any baits. On rare occasions I spray my paint pretty heavy and it drips and runs, but thats not often. I just felt that was my fault because I added a little too much thinner (water) in my paint and/or sprayed it too heavy. Most of the time I spray thin coats that, at least I thought, were dry by the time I clean my cup and switch colors.

So, my question is, and I apologize because it might be obvious therefore a dumb question, but why do we heat set them either during or after? So far I've never had an issue with any of my baits...

Createx is first and foremost a T-shirt paint. Paints used to paint fabrics that will be washed need to be "heat set" so the water based paints don't wash out of the fabric. Heat setting Createx changes the way the paint bonds on a molecular level. If the paint is heated appropriately it then becomes waterproof so the t-shirt can be washed in a washing machine without destroying the art work. Now whether or not the paint on lures that are covered with a top coat actually need to be truly heat set is a matter of opinion. The main reason I use heat between coats of paint is to dry each layer before moving on to the next coat. I like to know there is no moisture left in the paint before I top coat a lure. If your having good success without using heat that's great. I just like knowing there is no moisture trapped under my top coat. Especially when building wooden lures.

Ben

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Personally, I agree with BobP. I don't think we can get the T shirt paint hot enough to truly heat set it, and change it's molecular structure, without ruining either the bait or the paint job, because we don't, as Ben pointed out, paint T shirts. We paint hard, porous surfaces.

If you put a plastic bait in a 325 degree oven for 20 minutes, I'm pretty sure it will burst from the expansion of the air inside it. I have not tried that particular experment.

Even with the PVC I use, if I heat it longer than a few seconds with the hair dryer on high, I get bubbling, either from trapped air, or from trapped solvent in the actual PVC material.

I use a hair dryer, first on low, and then on high, to drive out as much moisture as I can before I top coat, to avoid trapping moisture under the top coat.

Trapped moisture insures top coat failure.

I dip with a water borne urethane top coat, and heat set it, too, and the whole paint scheme is water proof when I'm done. I've had hook rash and rock "bites", but the paint scheme holds up.

Mark, what top coat do you use? Thanks.........Ron

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Personally, I agree with BobP. I don't think we can get the T shirt paint hot enough to truly heat set it, and change it's molecular structure, without ruining either the bait or the paint job, because we don't, as Ben pointed out, paint T shirts. We paint hard, porous surfaces.

If you put a plastic bait in a 325 degree oven for 20 minutes, I'm pretty sure it will burst from the expansion of the air inside it. I have not tried that particular experment.

Even with the PVC I use, if I heat it longer than a few seconds with the hair dryer on high, I get bubbling, either from trapped air, or from trapped solvent in the actual PVC material.

I use a hair dryer, first on low, and then on high, to drive out as much moisture as I can before I top coat, to avoid trapping moisture under the top coat.

Trapped moisture insures top coat failure.

I dip with a water borne urethane top coat, and heat set it, too, and the whole paint scheme is water proof when I'm done. I've had hook rash and rock "bites", but the paint scheme holds up.

 

Mark, what top coat do you use? Thanks.........Ron

What top coat do you recommend over Createx Wicked colors and regular Createx colors? Thank you for you input and time. :rolleyes:

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I use a dryer on high to dry/heat-set after each layer of paint. I spray with an airbrush using several different manufacturers paint so I want everything completely dry before spaying the next layer so there is little chance for any adverse reaction between different paints. The paint is already pretty dry within a minute or 2 when sprayed anyway because there is very little humidity and usually warm temps where I live. I have found I need to keep the heat moving when using it on poured resin lures or it can bubble.

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BobP said,

 

How would you test whether acrylic paint on a crankbait was actually
"heat set"? Why not the same way as a T-shirt? Soak it in detergent,
give it a scrub and see if it stays on the bait. I'm betting it won't.

 

Well I can tell you it doesn't stay on my baits. I've messed up paint jobs in the past and wanted a mulligan on the paint scheme. Inside to the kitchen and start scrubbing, well it comes off down to the primer and actually I'm glad it did. A 3 minute scrub and ready to try again. So again, not so much heat set but just to dry to remove the moisture to continue painting.

 

Jerry

Edited by bassguy

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Ron,

I now use Solarez.  I was using Target Coatings SC9000, and still do if I use a solvent sharpie, but just one dip coat to seal it, and then dip into the Solarez.

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Ron,

I now use Solarez.  I was using Target Coatings SC9000, and still do if I use a solvent sharpie, but just one dip coat to seal it, and then dip into the Solarez.

Thank you Mark, I'm going to give it a try. I just ordered some today and I hope this solves my issues. I will post results when I try it out in a week or so. Thanks to all for your helpful comments. :worship:

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I like to paint several baits at the same time so I use a

halagen work light to heat set/dry my paint.When you are

doing several baits at the same time it's alot easier to paint

one set it in front of the light and grab the next bait.

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I hit the lure with a hair dryer for a few seconds after each coat (closer to a minute if its a base coat).  This helps to prevent scratching the surface as easily when doing stencil work.

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