littleriver

Dives To 50ft?

30 posts in this topic

Did anyone see the latest bassmaster elite event on Douglas? Strarks, the winner, claimed to get his SK 6XD to 50 feet without modifing the bait. Just wondered if anyone here has tried long-lining their crankbaits to get super deep? I also wondered if the method worked for any crankbait. I am thinking it would.

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I have personally never tried it, one of my friends told me about doing this with a dd22 years ago. He would cast and use his trolling motor to run out another 50 ft or so of line. He wasn't sure how deep he was getting but said he bumped bottom for a much longer period of time. He also said that he never caught a bass doing this. But, back then they/he didn't have the electronics to find those schools of fish. John

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I have a book called the Trolling Bible that the writers used scuba divers to chart the depths of various popular lures at different speeds and line lengths. It is an excellent resource for trolling and I find the information to be accurate with what I've used. That being said I find it hard to believe that a crankbait can get to 50ft without the aid of another apparatus or weights.

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Im not an expert but after thinking about it for a minute I have surmised this theory.....feel free to beat up on this......

When a crank reaches its full depth the line will be at an angle to the rod tip. This angle will always be the same for that specific lure when at that maximum depth. If you put enough line out in to the water, the line itself will be under more drag or resistance. You may notice sometimes that you get line bend. The point at which the line bends is in the water somewhere and is now the place where the angle at max. depth is measured from. So in essance, you have moved the point of reference from the rod tip to somewhere down on the line.

Im either a genius or an idiot..........LOL

Sonny

Edited by Sonny.Barile

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Her is the correct link I intended to post

http://www.bassmaster.com/long-lining-how-deep-can-you-go

Sorry about that.......

John your right . Finding fish at those depths is the trick. These new $3000 + fish finders are doing just that. Sadly , while the pros are marking sunken tires and schools of fish at 30mph, I am am wondering if my cheap outdated finder is finding bottom as the depth indicator flashes 200ft at me every time I bump the trolling motor .

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I used that technique 15 or 20 years ago although I wasn't trying to get to 50'. I had found a bunch of fish on a drop off that wouldn't touch a Texas rig, a Carolina rig, a jig, jigging spoon or anything else I could easily get down to them. The ledge varied anywhere from 25 to 30 foot deep depending on where on it you were. I backed way off and threw a crank out and then used the trolling motor to position myself on the shallow side of where the fish were sitting and brought the crank back to them. I really had no idea if this would work, but it did. I think a crank at that depth was just something those fish had never seen before and they couldn't resist it.

Ben

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Ben That is exactly how Starks used the technique to catch his last two five pounders of the day to win the tourney. Pounding the crank into a deep ledge.

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Quickdraw sounds like a very nice book to have indeed. I imagine it includes type and diameter of line used?

Sonny I think the type of line used and diameter of line will play havoc with your theory.

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I feel the right bait will get down to 40+ by long lining. I make a deep diver that will 23-25ft on a long cast with 20lb braid. If I spooled out 200 yrds of line I'm sure the diving depth would almost double.

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A father/son team used to rule tournaments at Lake Casitas doing that.

I don't know how deep their DD22's got, but they caught nicer fish than anyone else.

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I have been doing this for the last few years . I use a 10 to 12 foot crankbait and long Line it to get it down to 20 to 23 feet . The shad in some lakes around hear are very small and smaller crankbait seems to catch them better than a big 20+ crankbait

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You can always tie your crank on the end of your C-rig, as long as it's a floater, and get down as deep as you like.

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The one thing you have to take in affect is the drag on the line you use at some point the drag against the line will not let the bait pull any deeper becouse the weight of pull against the line is the same or greater then the bait will be able to overcome,and when its greater it will begain to pull the bait upward becouse the drag the line has from friction against the water,i used to fish for samon in the great lakes and used what we called a slider rig(ten ft of line with a swivel at each end ) putting a lure on one end and attaching the other end to the main line on the rod being used on the downrigger letting it slide down the line to a point where the line bows to to the pull from the lure/line and it would slide down the line 1/2 the distaince to the cannon ball,even with a diving type crankbait(and should dive all the way to the weight/clip due to the sliding of the line)all becouse of drag on the line it wont go past that point,thats why thay used to troll with lead core line to get the bait deep before the invent of the downrigger

Edited by crankpaint

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My uncle and I Carolina Rig shallow running high floating crankbaits in order to fish deep areas where we find fish. It allows you to fish a crank bait very slow or moderately fast, and with the high floater there is not much more chance of hanging up than there is with a regular Carolina Rig.

Now, deep for me isn't all that deep compared to some reservoirs, but it works. Usually only break out that trick in the winter time though. Usually DT10 or DT14s work for me, but occassionally they won't hit a bait even moving that fast.

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I visit a friend in Virginia who trolls crankbaits for stripers and in my experience, a crankbait trolled on 150' of line will typically run twice the depth it will run on a long cast. I don't know if a 6XD will actually run 20 ft when cast, but I'm doubtful. So I also doubt that long lining a 6XD would get you anywhere near 50 ft deep. I confess I'm jaded by all the false depth claims put out by crankbait manufacturers. Is there anyone out there who still believes a DD22 runs 22 ft deep? They run 17-18 ft deep on 10 lb copolymer with a 100 ft cast. Anyone believe KVD casts crankbaits 100 YARDS? No way! I chalk up the "50 ft deep long lining" to the usual fishing hyperbole.

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Snowman, I like your idea of using smaller bait at deeper depths. I feel this would be effective here too. Now I just need to build some baits and do some fishing.

I like Carolina rigging cranks too. It would work to get the depth for sure but not sure how stealthy the method would be to get those out of nowhere reaction strikes. Also some situations (big snaggy rock) maybe not so good. We have an abundance of this stuff. Still there are plenty of other places it would work great.

Starks had 300 yards(900 feet of line) trolled out. A dense sinking fluorocarbon line. Brand and diameter unknown. The location he was fishing is known. What I can tell you is we have lots of soft red clay banks here on Douglas. The spot he was fishing is no exception. If a crank hits bottom and is not felt, your sure to see red on the bill of your crank. Stuff sticks like glue when wet. This kind of confirmation is enough to convince anyone, including myself ;) .

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I like Carolina rigging cranks too. It would work to get the depth for sure but not sure how stealthy the method would be to get those out of nowhere reaction strikes. Also some situations (big snaggy rock) maybe not so good. We have an abundance of this stuff. Still there are plenty of other places it would work great.

Its not a technique I have spent a lot of time on, but some form of rock walker or "snagless" sinker instead of a regular Carolina rig sinker might help. One of those funny looking Lindy ones or perhaps a hard tied football jig shaped one.

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Never tried a sinker of that style . Would be worth a go. I am pretty careful where I throw a rig. But the best bites always come from the rocks. Thank you for the suggestion, Bob.

Vic

Edited by littleriver

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Little river, it would be relative to the line and conditions but my theory is hairbrained. I did not consider that when we do get line bow it doesnt curve downward. If it was a matter of simple geometry it would affect the lure in the opposite direction, reducing the depth. I am more inclined to agree with Crankpaint after hearing his explanation. After reading thru it I can recall times where I couldnt get a lure to swim because of severe line bow. It makes it seem like you have the line taught from the water surface to the rod but the line out to the crank is actually loose and doesnt pull straight on the bait.

So I answered my own question......."Im an idiot" LOL

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Nah, Sonny your "right on" about line bow limiting depth. I do not think one can completely disregard this fact (unless fishing in space) and you made a good point. For what it is worth your d :censored:m smart in my book. However, with a thin, dense, low stretch, sinking line one can reduce the effects of line bow. This knowledge will effect my choice of line for cranking from now on. With 900 feet of it out and a deep diver tied on, not sure what the maximum depth one can achieve. I plan to find out this summer and who knows maybe catch a few fish along the way.

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Nah, Sonny your "right on" about line bow limiting depth. I do not think one can completely disregard this fact (unless fishing in space) and you made a good point. For what it is worth your d :censored:m smart in my book. However, with a thin, dense, low stretch, sinking line one can reduce the effects of line bow. This knowledge will effect my choice of line for cranking from now on. With 900 feet of it out and a deep diver tied on, not sure what the maximum depth one can achieve. I plan to find out this summer and who knows maybe catch a few fish along the way.

Man, I hope your rod and reel setup is strong! Pulling 900' of mono or fluoro line will feel like dragging an anchor!

And I can't begin to imagine how you'll set the hook with that much line out. It will be like pulling on a rubberband, unless you're using braid.

I have visions of you holding a tuna stick. Hahaha

I hope you get it to work, so I can copy you!!!!

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That's 300 yards of line not counting what you would need left on the spool for backing. Not a lot of reels designed for bass fishing will even hold that much line. Probably have to go with something built for saltwater or inshore fishing.

Ben

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Ben , There are a few hurdles that one must overcome first. Choosing line , reel and rod are on the list. Starks had a large capacity revo. Or if your like me, just use the bait caster you have that has the largest line capacity. May not hold 300 yards but over 200 yards of a small diameter line without backing is possible. Mine looks pre spawn for sure. Casting is a treacherous endeavour. Then the rod, a long cranking rod is preferred. But my 6'6" med action quantum will have to do for now. Finally the line. A quality fluorocarbon would be best. Yet, I chose to try Yo-zuri hybrid 10lb in green. Mainly because it was on sale at Ollies. 600 yard spool was 8 bucks. A very dense, sinking, low stretch and strong line.

As you can tell I am not perfectionist. Can not afford to be but have to work with what I have or can get on a budget.

Mark , the lure used will have a large influence on how hard it is to reel in just like any crank. I found the 6xd twice as hard to reel in as my homemade. This was due because of the wider action of the 6xd. My homemade with the tight action was much easier to pull. The 6xd was a bit slower to reach bottom than the homemade as well. The lures would stay on bottom with ease once there. And they stayed on bottom to the boat. Not sure yet what the max depth one can achieve. It will depend greatly on the lure and line used. Really required nothing too special. I have had harder days casting and retrieving dd 22s. Only to have them in the strike zone for a few feet vs hundreds of feet with this method. I think with shallower divers one could take them deeper as Snowman suggest and keep them there for a long ways. The trick will be discovering depths of the lures with your setup. Then use the right one for the given situation. Put it in their face and your sure to get bit.

Once bitten Mark, I believe your correct about setting the hook. Just not possible. In the videos of Starks, he is sharpening hooks and every fish he catches just falls off the hook. Not much can be done about that except quality sharp hooks. I hope I am so lucky to get bit and have that problem to overcome.

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At the very least....you have a place to start. I would think that the fish that would bite at that depth are going to be big. With the bigger fish goes a bigger bite. With the right hook shape you may not need to actually set the hook.

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